Get The Game

The Legend system core rulebook v1.0 is now available! Until recently, it was pay-what-you-want. Right now, it’s just free! Click here to download it.

If you are viewing Legend on a small monitor, you should switch to single-page view (View > Page Display > Single Page View on Adobe Reader). A Legend Pocket Edition is in the works as part of our Kickstarter stretch goals to accommodate smaller screens, as well as tablets and Kindles.

Character Sheets

114 comments on “Get The Game

  1. Adam Robinson on said:

    Always happy to help projects like this get up and running, and I’m especially happy to do so when such a project benefits Child’s Play.

  2. Eduardo Soares on said:

    Just passing by to say: Your system is amazing. A good, fresh and balanced approach to d20, I love it!

    This is only surpassed by the model you chose to “sell” Legend. It’s pretty generous, this kind of thing make me proud to be part of our hobby community. I wish I could chip in more, this project really deserves it!

    I’m hoping to see the Monster Book and some kind of Dungeon Master Guide soon! Keep up the good work.

    Sorry for my bad english, and cheers from Brazil!

  3. Against Hate on said:

    In all seriousness, why would someone want to play this poorly written, obviously unresearched, and culturist d20 re-write?

    • Sorry we offended you!

    • Good on you for taking two years of building, research, blood/sweat/tears, and flushing it down the pooper in a sentence.

      Good on you for speaking so negatively of a project that will benefit children through the payment method.

      Good on you for being an ass. In all seriousness.

      • Kazushi, Knight 2nd on said:

        Such Baseless Criticism. At least provide proof of what you say.

        I myself am at the first few pages of the Core Book so might be that I lose some credibility but from what ive read in the wordy bit it sounds amazing. might want some art of the constellations and towns and such as you description of them confuses me.

        Good day!

    • Black Mage on said:

      If you could list some concrete complaints about the system, I would be delighted to correct them.

      • typenamehere on said:

        I like it. The production quality is fine for an indie. OK you need rulebook cover art, but that’s not a dealbreaker.

        It seems to feel like a cross between D&D and a John Woo “gun fu” film. I can imagine the ‘wizard’ flying in and shooting a wand in each hand as he rolls under a burst of rays … before whacking the end boss with a flying heatbutt and dropping a fireball down its throat.

        The “tracks” and “classes” are a bit like 4E hybriding but they’re far more flavourful, varied and diverse than 4E. So it sort of has the mechanical (system mechanics) feel of 4E with the diversity and freedom of 3E.

        I would not call it D&D but it’s a fine RPG.

    • Logan Allen on said:

      Don’t feed the troll, guys. This is a great game, and has gotten the positive response that it most definitely deserves in all the reviews, and by everyone who has been messing with the game.

    • amoonki on said:

      What are your complaints about the system? I’m not looking to tear you down, I’m just interested in getting a better perspective on the system’s faults.

  4. I, for one, appreciate the fact that you took this already working system of d20 and made it fresh and concise. As a “long-time” gamer (I got the D&D Basic Set when it first came out) I am always on the lookout for new games that can be played with little or no experience but also allows the expert gamer to have a challenge. Having played AD&D for decades as well as Vampire and Earthdawn (also Paranoia, Gamma World, Top Secret, etc…) I appreciate this effort.

    The payment method is an awsome way to not only garner interest in the game but also benefit a worthy charity.

    Way to go!!!

  5. Doc Aquatic on said:

    This is a terrific game, and I’ve been waiting for a decent version of d20 for a while now, but is the donation counter isn’t working for me. Does anyone else have a problem with it being stuck around $920?


  6. Daragaard on said:

    how do you download the game? all i get is a corrupt PDF ?

    do i have to donate to download the game?

    • You shouldn’t! E-mail me the corrupt PDF so that I can take a look at what’s gone wrong, please.

      • Cap'n D on said:

        Might have been because of heavy site traffic? I downloaded the core book yesterday… the file was corrupt… I downloaded it again right away, and it was fine. I chalked it up to getting Slashdotted! But since they’re the folks who led me to you, I’m not complaining!

  7. The Incorrigible Professor M on said:

    I’ve been looking for an easy to get into ttRPG for a few newb friends of mine for a week or so. Rule of Cool to the rescue!

  8. Would it be possible to maybe get an eReader formatted game book?
    like an epub or something? I hate reading on the computer and I’m sure work wouldn’t appreciate me printing nearly 200 pages…
    Otherwise the game looks great and I’m happy to contribute!

    • Send me an e-mail, and we’ll talk about this! Maybe we can get you the source files if you’d like to compile an epub version.

      • monkius on said:

        +1 to this idea. Another idea would be a .pdf formatted for a laptop, where you really want one long column of text. Two columns of text requires a lot of scrolling on the laptop.

  9. Cool idea guys.

    Here’s hoping you become the Humble Indie Bundle of table top RPGs :-)

  10. Logan Allen on said:

    Loving how this system takes away the elements of d20 that are annoying and makes everything more concise and flow better. Thanks for this! It’s appreciated.

  11. Molepunch on said:

    Best wishes from Singapore! Donated and downloaded and ready to feast through the PDF later :)

  12. Other Steven on said:

    I’ve slowly been getting a chance to read over the sourcebook over the last few days. As someone who isn’t into DMing for DnD/D20 that much, you have me excited. I’m already putting together campaigns for this game. I just have one major complaint:

    How can you make a game that I’m going to DM have an awesome Paladin that I’ll inevitably want to play!? Seriously, you made the Paladin too good. Granted, I’m usually the Paladin, but this one is by far my favorite. I’m almost tempted to gift Legend to a friend JUST so I can get a chance at that Paladin.

  13. Epizephyrii on said:

    Legend looks really cool and I’m excited to read through the rules more and possibly use it in an upcoming campaign I’m working on. Two questions, though:
    1. I’ve looked through the PDF and have yet to find a character sheet. Is there a character sheet for Legend yet?
    2. Are you going to post any examples of monsters? I have read the short section on creating a monster, but that is all I can find and it would be nice to have a bit more to work with.

    • Some of our first DLC will involve a few sample monsters, but much of that has to wait until the monster book. As for a character sheet, if you take a peek at recent posts, you’ll find one.

  14. Hi, never played a tabletop game before, but this has encouraged me to give it a go with some friends. Just completed our first encounter, and have a couple of questions I couldn’t find answers to: how do you calculate which squares are within a radius? Is it just a square? And I’m not entirely sure I understand the guild mechanic properly… does joining a guild get you access to more item slots, and going “full buy in” gains you more than being uninitiated, but less than standard buy in (but you get an extra track)? Great work on making it relatively intelligibly to new players! :-)

    • Great questions!

      When we calculate a radius with a square grid, we follow a couple steps.

      1) Pick a grid intersection where the effect is centered.
      (If the effect is centered on a creature, whoever activates that effect can pick a corner of that creature’s square. If the creature occupies more than one square (such as a Large-sized creature, which occupies four 5-foot squares), you can also pick an intersection inside the creature’s space.)

      2) Count squares from that intersection, at 5 feet per square, until you run out of radius.
      (Remember that diagonal distance counts as 1.5 squares; in practice count 1, then 2 and alternate for calculating diagonal distance.)

      3) The final product will not look like a square (past the 5-foot radius, which is a 10-foot square); it will look like a very jagged “round” shape.

      If you find this difficult, sketch out some example areas and keep them around. It will become much easier with practice.

      Here’s how the guild mechanic works. Guilds are organizations that have an interest in sponsoring adventurers and other powerful creatures (this can cover anything from a mercenaries’ guild to a temple organization to a powerful dragon looking for servants). They offer two major benefits. A character with the Guild Initiation feat can trade out a track at any point, instead of only at character generation, and can access racial tracks as well as “normal” tracks via terrible rituals of transformation and such. This option gains you no additional items, but can gain you the tracks that will set up your character to be exactly what you wanted to play. Secondly, a character can contract with a guild to “fully buy in”, which involves sacrificing much of his or her ability to use magic items in exchange for gaining an additional track. This can model anything from a barbarian’s devotion to the wild leading him to run around in rags while wielding a big stick, to a monk sacrificing material possessions in order to pursue her quest for enlightenment, to monsters who exist solely to serve the will of their lord and only carry what few magic items they absolutely require to perform their tasks.

      Hope this helps!

      • I was confused by this somewhat as well. I love the concepts and design of the game, but the Guild section, I respectfully submit, could use a little revision and elaboration. I’m excited to see where this project goes.

      • Thanks for the clarification!

        I’m enjoying the monster creation process for creating unique “storyline” NPC characters, but I’m looking forward to the monster book so that I can pull random encounters together more quickly. I’d love to be able to “roll up” some encounters to keep the PCs busy whilst I put together the next part of the story. They keep doing things I didn’t expect, so it’s hard to plan ahead (who takes prisoners? Bloody paladins. :-) )

  15. Wheels on said:

    Hope you don’t mind I donated my $10 to Doctors without borders instead of Childs play.

  16. An utterly fantastic tabletop, great fun. Well done guys and girls!

  17. Michael on said:

    Donated a few days ago, downloaded today, starting the game tomorrow with my group! You guys rock!

  18. Never heard of this before today; I really appreciate the work you guys have put into this and the generosity you’re showing in your distribution choice. Donated, downloaded, and looking forward to reading everything!

  19. David Norton on said:

    On the character sheet, under social defenses, Perception is listed as being calculated as (10 + Level + Cha + Misc), but on the skill side, it’s listed as being related to Wisdom. Is the Social Defenses calculation wrong?

  20. Omegaweopon on said:

    My only qualm here, would be not being able to donate, and aquire the system, due to Paypal being the only method. Otherwise, I would purchase readily with my Amazon Payments account.

    • Feel free to just download a copy anyway. There’s no DRM, and we understand that this is a problem. If you feel bad, just make a donation to a charity of your choice instead. :)

  21. Meadslosh on said:

    For the most part, I find this to be a really exciting take on the d20 system. The track system is by far its crowning achievement, and I’m very eager o try playing around with it and create exciting new types of characters.

    What I dislike — strongly — are a good number of the feats. I dislike that so many of them grant supernatural powers without any dependence upon a character’s existing build. I dislike that the line between many General and Combat feats is so blurry at times. (How is Baptized In Rage much different than A Hell of A Thing, neither of which have any prerequisites and both of which grant supernatural, combat-use powers?)

    Feats, in my opinion, ought to augment or diversify the innate class- or race-granted abilities and themes of a character. Too many of the feats presented in Legend seem like they should be circles of tracks, or at least require membership in a class or circle. For example, The Sky Empties seems like it should be part of the Sage class (as they are very much like the D&D Warlock, a “spellcaster” without spells and a theme of “magic by contract), or at least only be open to someone who has a Sage or maybe Shaman class track.

    Next, and this isn’t as big of a complaint, but still a potential issue… the tracks that are entirely class-restricted are somewhat unclear. As far as I can tell, only the Paladin and Rogue have exclusive tracks. If I’m wrong about this, then a greater effort needs to be made to clarify which tracks are exclusive. If I’m right, then I wonder why a good number of classes exist at all if six of the eight can replace all of their tracks with tracks from another class. Shouldn’t each class have one track exclusive to that class? Otherwise, there’s little incentive to take any class except for its better HP, BAB, saves, and skills.

    (I think this may be an error: the Runic Gunmage feat requires By Will Sustained. Shouldn’t that be Rune Magic?)

    • We’ll be adding more and more feats with a less supernatural bent. We include the ones we do in an effort to cover a broad reach of fantasy bases, and admit that some may be inappropriate for certain settings. Let us know if we can help more!

      And yes, esoterica and judgment are the only restricted tracks. Hop into IRC and we’ll chat about why :)

    • Micah Blackburn on said:

      Honestly I like that many feats provide supernatural abilities. Not doing so is a failure on 3.e design and is what led to the nearly universal planning of the fighter class. I like that you guys are clear on what pcs should be capable of at different tiers of play(like flight or teleportation). It seems like you won’t end up with the horrible martial /magic divide that d20 is infamous for. It also allows for playing more epic/mythic fantasy that d&d’s sword&sorcery roots often prohibit.

  22. Paul W. on said:

    Where’s Chapter 4?
    Chapter 3 – Races and Classes
    Chapter 4 –
    Chapter 5 – Skills

  23. Antien on said:

    This looks pretty awesome at first glance. Is the pdf the full, complete core rulebook, or is there more to come?

  24. I’m a long time D&D player, currently running a 4e game. I’d been pondering trying Pathfinder for the next game I run to try and resurrect the 3e style ‘crunch’ a bit, and hearing about this, I checked it out as a potential alternate. I really like the approach to multiclassing and even toward powerful race usage, but I also seem some places where you’ve walked into old pitfalls.

    Please don’t take any of this criticism the wrong way (even though its long and detailed): I don’t mean to demean your effort (or especially your charitable goal, which is great), and offer all of this with the intent of it being constructive and hopefully valuable criticism from a long-time player of your inspirational material:

    Your hybridization of 3e and 4e style ability score usage yields some odd results:

    - Constitution is nearly totally superior to Strength, when Strength has no inherent benefit to combat. Both give fort defense, but Con gives a metric buttload of HP. (In fact, I’m tempted to say that your rules basically make Constitution too powerful in and of itself. There was a reason Constitution was almost never a key score in 3e, and it only could become one in 4e because they reduced its impact on HP).

    - Similar issues with Dexterity. It inherently improves initiative and a lot of good skills, so its pretty much better than Strength as a KOM. It seems like it almost never comes up as a KDM, which also strikes me as odd from a verisimilitude perspective (my grace and speed has nothing to do with dodging a sword?).

    - Whats with the overlapped defense KOM/KDM classes? Barbarian, Ranger and Shaman all suffer from this. When you can multiclass so easily, why choose a base chassis like this?

    General notes on balance and specific abilities:

    - Barbarians seem both lackluster and under powered. It feels like you stuck to dated mechanics here (compared to innovation elsewhere in the book), including some really dubious ones (losing AC for temp hp often turns out to be a trap). Their defensive track is one of the weakest (the capstone is terrible because its pre-activated, not reactive, as well as being short duration) and Path of Destruction seems underwhelming, with a lot of overlapping abilities focused on a single thing (hurting a lot of people in a clump – when the class has no way to assure they get or stay in that clump). Its telling that most every Barbarian would be improved taking Elven War Dance, Discipline of the Crane, and some other Offensive track.

    - Paladins on the other hand seem crazy powerful. A party with Bastion vs a party without are vastly different in terms of power level, when you’re propagating single target buffs and then preventing them from being dispelled (and its also the sort of thing that will only get more powerful as you have more expansions, more spells, etc). It feels like its close to a mandatory ability, in terms of how strong it is. The damage from Smiting seems like it also scales up better than the precision damage other classes get, once you’re doing it 4-6 times per attack.

    - Discipline of the Crane: This is really the ‘superior’ defensive track. The scaling deflection bonuses is going to give these characters AC higher than anyone else (otherwise, the best you can get is +3 deflection, while this goes all the way up to +7). On top of this, it saves you an (arguably mandatory) feat to get wings, gives you a huge movement bonus, and gives you a great anti-death ability, plus some other goofy utility.

    - Bring the Rain: Ok, this isn’t so much a balance issue as a plain wtf. Is it really intended that you can let your friendly spellcaster nuke people from thousands of miles away (via something like Silent Halls)? :)

    - Stitch in Time: Really? The whole party? Every round? Equivalent Warlord abilities in 4e are high level daily powers. Aside from its fairly ridiculous power level, causing all these out of turn actions is going to really slow down play.

    - Iron Magi: Neat concept, but fairly confusing implementation.

    Clarity: There’s a few places where the attempt at light, clever language makes the rules more confusing rather than clearer:

    - Restricted tracks. Someone else brought this up, but its pretty unclear which tracks are restricted and why (or even which tracks are ‘fixed’ and why).

    - ‘Ally’ term: Does this include the user or not? It seems like it shouldn’t, but maybe it does? Some powers give specific rules which leads to inferring the general case as the other way, but that’s not a great way of deriving rules.

    - Weapons: Things like Guardian and One or Two-Handed usage are a little muddled and confusing. I take it that ONLY Guardian weapons are supposed to be used with a shield, and that the One or Two Handed weapons are there to highlight the ability to swap out your special ability for more damage, I could see people thinking you could use a flail and shield or being confused why you can’t two-hand a long sword. It does strike me as a little odd that some characters will basically be stuck holding a 1-handed weapon and nothing in the other hand? Maybe you should toss the Guardian ability and find another benefit to give longswords.

    - Its great that you point out 2x With Your Shield or On It doesn’t make you immortal. It would be better if you explained what ACTUALLY happens :)

    - Without doing another full read through of the book to pick out every instance, I recall hitting more than a few spots where the language was confusing either due to long and complex sentences or pithy language that didn’t really clarify the rules. I’d suggest the whole document could probably use another editing pass by someone not involved with writing it.

    At the end of all that, let me please say again that I really think you have something neat in the making here. It can use some polish and refinement, but its a great foundation for a still-crunchy light approach to D&D.

  25. Hey guys, I just wanted to post a comment saying that the game is very well done. However, varying art qualities throughout the book, and no art for any of the races, leave me wanting. Great game, though. Absolutely splendiferous.

  26. I love pretty much everything about this, but I have one real question:

    What is with the lack of Grapple?

  27. The character sheet is not working. When i try to get it it freezes my browser and opens adobe but nothing loads. Is it something I’ve done?

    • I’m not sure, we’ve been having some issues that are basically inexplicable. We’re looking to switch to a new character sheet soon. Try right clicking and saving it manually that way. It’ll still be editable and you can save it.

      • If you can, get your web server to set the following header:

        “Content-disposition: attachment; filename=CharacterSheet.pdf”

        That will tell a web browser that it should “save as” even if the user just clicks. PDF browser plugins are really buggy!

  28. Any chance of a single-column version for easy reading on tablets?

    • We’ve had a couple of people ask about this, so there’s definitely a chance, but we’re focusing on catching up on incentives right now. Would you prefer something like Dharma (check it out in the donation incentives) with a landscape orientation and a wider margin, or the same as the current document but with merged columns?

      • Dharma’s format looks good for what I’m talking about, a good orientation and size for reading on screens. The single column thing is the most important part for this, though, since that should eliminate unnecessary scrolling issues. But yeah, I understand that this would be a low-ish priority. You probably want to work on the rules and extra content more first before a side project like this.

  29. A possible typo: the “To Pierce the Heavens” feat mentions drills as weapons (a side note, hooray for Gurren Lagann references) but I can’t find them described anywhere.

  30. Meadslosh on said:

    It’s not a typo, but a joke. It’s a reference to an anime series called Toppa Tengen Gurren Lagann, in which gigantic drills are used as weapons.

  31. The game rules are OGL, but if I’m not mistaken, “Legend System” is product identity. Is there (or are there plans for) a separate license that would let 3rd party publishers claim compatibility?

    • Right now, we are in the process of determining how something like that would work. We will release a public announcement once we have made a decision.

  32. How exactly will the file be accessible after the 7th? Will people who have already donated be able to download any future revised versions?

  33. RejjeN on said:

    I’ll pay 5$ since I’m unlikely to actually use it (Not very active when it comes to Pen and Paper RPG’s, looks promising from what Mr. Clevinger has said however :)

  34. You need a better server – I’ve tried downloading Legend about 5 times, on different days, and it always hangs during the download. It gets to about 800 Kb, and just dies. Then , if I wait long enough, it tells me there is a type 14 error with the pdf… Good luck fixing whatever is wrong.

  35. Hedrax on said:

    First over all I would like to say that this is a very interesting system. I love the tone of it. It allows your character to feel heroic from the very start. The flex ability of the system is wonderful since with a bit of creativity and a bit of story spinning you can make many different character concepts come to life. How ever I do have a few thoughts, concerns and constructive criticism I’d like to share.

    Firstly it says in the multiclassing entry that “Some ability tracks (such as the Paladin’s Judgment and the Rogue’s Esoterica Radica) cannot be accessed by multiclassing. Such restrictions are always included in the text of an ability track.” The only problem is that these tracks don’t actually note this. The Paladin entry doesn’t even state that you can’t trade away the Judgement track (I’m not sure if this is intentional or not) and the Rogue entry only says that Esoterica Radica can’t be traded away in it’s multiclassing taps.

    I have also noticed a few inconsistencies in the magic chapter. The short entry for Inflict Moderate Wounds in the shaman Spell List doesn’t match the longer one in the actual Spell Descriptions section. Also both Call Lightning and Flamestrike’s Spell List entries say they last till the end of the [Scene]. Call Lightning’s Spell Description states it only lasts till the end of the [Encounter]. Flamestrike’s Spell Description states it only summons one pillar of flame and it lacks any information on the incantation the spell list entry says it has.

    On the subject of spells I have a few balance concerns. Primarily with Call Lightning and Flamestrike’s incantations (if flamestrike even really has one, see above). Call Lightning’s (3rd circle) incantation is very powerful. “When you imbue this spell into an Incantation, the target ally gains 1d6 bonus [Electricity] damage for each level you possess on all attacks made with a specific weapon the ally is holding.” Put this on an ally with Good BaB that flurries, it can deal up to 100d6 [Electricity] bonus per [Round] for the rest of the [Encounter] at level 20. Flamestrike’s (4th circle) incantation on the other hand does 1d8/level to only the next attack that lands. Even with out Call Lightning to be compared to that’s a bit dubious since it’s turning a fairly large AoE into a single target spell.

    Another concern I have in the introduction of spell with a Reverse function. It seems rather out of place to me in a system that is otherwise rather free form that some spells require that you learn their polar opposite to use. This wouldn’t be so much an issue if not for the fact that this can lead to a great many of one’s limited know spells being tied up by spells he may or may not even want to have. For instance if you wanted to learn all of the Cure and Heal spells you would also have to learn all associated Inflict and Harm spells. This would mean that instead of using 6 of your possible 20 spells know it would take 12. Over a quarter of your limit of know spell taken up by spells you may not want just to get the ones you do want.

    My final issue with magic is feats. There are quite a number of useful feats for fighting with weapons but there is only a few feats for spells and only two or three of them can actually be useful in most fights. And there are no feats for spell-like abilities which is odd since those are about as common actual spells.

    My next concern is Monks. Specifically the Discipline of the Serpent track. I would have to say it’s probably the best offensive track. Blow for blow it can hit just about as hard as say, the assassin or swashbuckler tracks. The difference is that it can land blows more often because a) it lets you flurry at not penalty, b) doesn’t require the target to be effected by condition or have the use succeed any kind of skill check to deal it’s bonus damage and c) the class it comes standard on has Good BaB. And this all stems from one circle, the very first one in the track. The track goes on to get a number of other abilities to increase utility, survivability or even more damage. Now this still isn’t too much of an issue on it’s own, but having Good BaB and the survivability and utility from it’s other tracks also gives Monks some of the best defensive stats in the in addition to what might be the offensive track in the game. So all in all they are about the same, if maybe slightly worse than, 3.5 Monks :P

    I hope these thoughts help make the game better, because the only reason I bring them up is because I care. It is a good system, it just has a few kinks. Thanks for taking the time to read.

  36. Micah Blackburn on said:

    I love a lot of what I see here. Quick question though. Are Shaman and Sages meant to have unlimited healing? Because right now they do.

    Also while I appreciate the mook rules I’d like to see something for generating minions style encounters, things that die in droves. The mooks seem like they would take time to slogan through.

    • The idea of infinite healing is both intended and very nearly necessary for a game like this to function. As for having a horde of easily-killable minions, the system supports throwing roughly 16 mooks 4 levels lower than the PCs’ 4-person party. Anything more than that probably requires custom mass combat rules, which may find their way into a future release.

      • Micah Blackburn on said:

        Hey thanks for the quick response.
        What I mean by minions is something like 4e minions that are math appropriate but die in a single hit. From what I can tell so far is that even kobold and goblin analogs Will still take several hits from a 4th or 5th level barbarian. That’s a bit unepic and soggy. granted I may be missing something. It seems like this would just get worse as you leveled up.

  37. Crit damage is listed as twice character level, but nothing I’ve read factors character level into damage. I have been assuming full damage and then doubling that, but I’m wondering what you guys intended crit damage to be.

  38. Fedelas on said:

    Really flavourous game! I enjoy reading it so much.
    My principal concerns is about “the math” behind the game, expecially at high level. As AC is linked to BAB but can be modified by deflection and armor bonuses ( easily a +3 with a shield and heavy armor, but can be more) the minimum number ( on d20) necessary to hit an even level ( and with the same BAB progression) foe will be 13 ( a 60% chance to miss); this thing only get worse when we factor in negative differences in BAB progression and level advancement and potentially item or tracks powers.
    This ( in my opinion) little “flaw”, make virtally useless the extra attacks granted by an high BAB (because they need a really high roll to land), worse, option like Power Attack or Deadly Aim, become detrimental to your damage output in almost any situation!
    Apart from this, the game is really good, and the track system is genius!
    Keep up the good works!

    • Keith Davies on said:

      I think including BAB in your armor calculations is a good thing — skilled fighters are harder to hit than less-skill fighters, and it applies regardless of how good the attacker is.

      The differences really show up when you start mixing level ranges (best vs. worst BAB at 20th level is only five points part; best at 20th vs. best at 10th is ten points apart), and this still works for me. The ‘Ftr10′ probably shouldn’t be able to hardly touch the ‘Ftr20′, they’re playing two different games at that point.

      • Fedelas on said:

        I think that too, probably AC shall be something like 7+BAB+KDM in order to make hitting things more easy in percentile terms, or peraphs making armor give Damage Resistance instead of AC.

        • Keith Davies on said:

          10+BAB+KDM vs d20+BAB+KOM

          Right now this is slightly more in favor of the attacker (attacker must match AC to hit, so 55% success). Reducing the defense to 7+BAB+KDM means you’re looking at 70% success for attackers, before considering that for many people KOM is likely to be higher than KDM.

          Armor helps cover these gaps, especially if it is as relatively small in Legend (‘easily +3′ for heavy armor and shield) compared to RSRD (which could be +8 or +9 easily). [no, I haven\'t gotten that far in the PDF yet]

          At this point, from what I see here, I’m comfortable with the math. Even a +8 bonus (fully plate in RSRD!) would mean that all else being equal there’s a 15% chance of taking damage. If it is only +3 then you’re looking at 40% chance, which sounds like pretty poor benefit from heavy armor.

          I’ll be able to comment more intelligently after I dig out the PDF (not on this computer) and review that section.

          • fedelas on said:

            KOM and KAM will be probably equal 99% of the time ( and usually derived from an 18 in the related stats) so 55% of chance to hit at same level, that become 40% against heavy armor and shield ( note that i consider boring missing 50-60% of my attacks but this is a subjective preferences).
            IMO the problem rise when factoring in magical items: a magical weapon vs. a magical suit of armor AND shield, put the attacke at lower odds. Other than this, at high level, the probabily of your secondary or tertiary attacks landing will be really low.
            Add to this that, generally, with this math implementation, Power Attack and Deadly Aim become traps, reducing your damage output considerably.

  39. I absolutely love this. My group should be starting up a game this week. One question: will there be a monster manual coming in the near future?

  40. Hedrax on said:

    So could you please clarify something for me? The feat Shadow Blink lets you add the [Teleport] descriptor to your movement made before the beginning of your next turn. But there isn’t anything that goes into detail as to what the [Teleport] descriptor does. All the feat says is that “You do not provoke attacks of opportunity by moving, except from opponents who threaten your square at the beginning of movement.” Is that the only effect of the [Teleport] descriptor or does it do additional things like allowing you to ignore terrain cost penalties and/or pass through obstacles like one might imagine teleporting would let you do?

    • It does let you ignore difficult terrain, but not pass through objects – you need line of sight to target the destination. It basically isn’t spelled out anywhere though (except for the Teleportation entry in the descriptors section, but even that is quite vague). Good catch; we’ll fix it ASAP.

  41. SarahW on said:

    I was reading through the core book and overall I think it’s a great system, though I was confused about something. The rogue Assasin track says that Sneak attack only applies to [Flat Footed], [Shaken], [Frightened],and [Panicked] targets, yet the only way for a rogue to give any of these conditions (before 10th lvl) other than the first turn of combat is the bluff skill? Did you plan for every Assasin rogue to be a fast talking bluff machine?

    It just seems odd to me that being Stealthed, or Invisible doesn’t let you sneak attack an opponent unless you first bluff them.

    If Sneak Attack was meant to work on targets denied their KDM bonus to AC or something, there are a lot of other rogue abilities that wouuld synergies well by making the rogue concealed, or invisible, or blinding the target or whatever. As it is written there isn’t any other rogue ability in any of the tracks that actually sets you up for a sneak attack other than the 4th circle ability that relies on the opponents moving conveniently for you.

    • Acrobatics will work too! To be honest, it’s something we’ve been toying with for a while. Hopefully, we’ll get a solution I like soon.

  42. Mehlers on said:

    So, any idea when the game will be out of beta? Also, will donations open again at some point? I am apparently a wee bit late to the party.

  43. I’ve really been looking for clarification on this one. Is the Shaman -intended- to make HP an in battle only commodity? There seems to be no limit to the amount of times they can use the Incantion ability, and Shaman’s Presence always being on seems a bit over the tops between the two, considering that the Shaman could just use Incantation repeatedly to heal everyone to full after each encounter.

    • Legend has a number of ways (such as the Sage’s Force of Will track) to heal damage at will. This has to do with us sending daily abilities the way of the dodo. Aside from per-Quest and per-Scene abilities, PCs are expected to face every encounter more or less fresh, but it’s up to the GM how long those durations are.

  44. Anonymous on said:

    Maybe it’s just me but there is no description for [Incorporeal] (it is mentioned in Ghost Hunter feat).

    Also, description for [Ethereal] seems to be implying that See Invisibility spell allows you to see [Ethereal] creatures (“Even if a creature on the Material Plane can see an ethereal being (typically in the same manner as one sees [Invisible] creatures)”). Is that intended?

  45. Could you indulge my curiosity? Why can the “Nature’s Power” spell only effect physical ability scores and not mental ones?

  46. Anonymous on said:

    Prying Eyes
    Duration: Scene


    “The eyes exist for up to 1 hour per level or until”.

  47. anonymous on said:

    Hmm… I wish Safekeeper Adept could be something more than a simple feat tax for a Safekeeper Magus. Alternatively Safekeeper Magus should not replace Safekeeper Adept so you have to places, one big and one small.

  48. Blair on said:

    Could someone explain how this feat works?

    “And My Axe! [Combat]
    Your brutal fighting style inflicts more damage on an enemy with each subsequent attack. Prerequisites: Use an axe or throwing axe Benefit: Axes don’t hurt people, enraged player characters with axes and omnicidal tendencies hurt people. When dealing damage with your axe, you deal an extra 2 damage for each time you have already hit your opponent in this [Encounter]. At 10th level, this increases to 4 extra damage.”

    From what I am reading (Which sounds way broken and not right), it states that every successful hit, I deal an increasing +2 damage. First hit = +0, Second hit = +2, Third hit = +4, Fourth hit = +6, etc. until the encounter is over. This definitely can’t be right and if it is… looks like my Vigilante Orc Cleaving Serpent monk is complete.

    Also question on the Disc. of the Serpent Path under monk, under the first unarmed circle, it states that now Flurry’s don’t require and action and no penalty, is that stating that I could still swift, move and standard a Flurry in the same round? The later circle describes being able to to do it in the middle of your movement action, but still being able to finish your movement after is how I’m reading it. After my move, I Flurry of Greataxes my opponent to death then I’m done, no more moving, or vica versa?

    Any help on the matter would greatly appreciated ^_^ This game has topped Pathfinder for me and now I feel I’m sucked into it’s Lore and mechanics…. KEEP IT UP!!


    • ConstableBrew on said:

      And My Axe: The bonus is against each individual opponent. For the first several rounds it isn’t all that much at all, and if you account for all the other fantastic bonuses that will be adding up with each hit, the And My Axe bonus is a bit meek. However, after 5 hits it really starts to add up. That makes it really only useful against BBEGs; going toe-to-toe against any other single mook for more than 5 rounds would be way too drawn out of a battle.

  49. Hedrax on said:

    So Retributive Armor from Necromancer says “anyone who successfully attacks you (with an attack roll within [Close] range) is shaken and takes 2 points of damage per level.” I’m curious if the shaken effect from this is supposed be able to stack with it’s self. It doesn’t say it can’t stack with it’s self, unlike Barbarian’s Terrifying Presence ability. Is this intended or an oversight?

    And on the note of shields, Elemental Shield from the Elementalist track could use a bit of clarification. It’s easy to understand the part where you grant the shield to your ally is a SLA; but is the self shielding also an activated SLA or is it constant SU effect on you? I would assume the latter personally from the way it’s stated but it’s a bit ambiguous.

  50. Andrew Quesenberry on said:

    What the heck is the Vigor skill? It appeared in the prototype character sheet, but there is nothing in the most recent legend book.

  51. The Tubstar on said:

    Got a few questions:
    1) How much damage do weapons actually do? Page 163 says that “Every weapon and natural attack has an amount of damage it deals in addition to its wielder’s KOM on a hit.” but I can’t find any reference to exactly how much that is.
    2) What does the Vigilante’s Brutal Kick do in terms of damage and/or weapon properties? It just says it “deals damage as a Main weapon, and gains additional bonus damage equal to your level.”.
    3) What are the limits to the weapon made with the Sage’s Grim Heritor ability? Is it simply a weapon that can be made using the same rules given for making weapons on page 164?
    4) This is probably going to seem like a daft question, but do spells from a spellcasting track count as spell-like abilities for the purposes of the Sage’s Mystic Focus?
    5) Can Shamans use their Shaman’s Path and give up one of their other tracks to, essentially, double multiclass?

    • Mr. S on said:

      1) Just above that, it says that base damage is 1d6.
      2) This is being fixed – for now, treat the base dice as a [Brutal 3] weapon
      3) Yes.
      4) No, spell-like abilities and spells are different.
      5) Yes.

      Hope that helps!

  52. Asker of Question on said:

    In the rule book HP is calculated using the character’s constitution modifier. On the prototype character sheet, HP is calculated using the KDM.
    Which is correct?

    • The character sheet is 1.0-ready, in which we are making that change. Constitution gets a new skill (Vigor) though, so it’s still a good ability score to invest in.

  53. Galstaff on said:

    I have a random couple questions about the system that need clarification.

    1. From Monk 2nd circle ability Weapon Master: “…You may use the base damage of your Unarmed Strike in place of the base damage of weapons you wield…”
    What is the point of that sentence? I thought every weapon did a base D6 damage regardless? Or does it mean you get to use your unarmed properties on the weapon attack? If so, then do they stack with the existing weapon properties or overwrite them?

    2. Can you take barbed on a ranged weapon? If so, how does this work if you aren’t keeping track of ammo? Also, do multiple barbed weapons in someone apply a stacking penalty?

    3. Does the AC penalty from the inconic feat “I am not Left Handed” stack with itself or other AC reducing skills?

    4. What is the point of a two handed weapon? The only difference I can tell is you can’t use it on a mount without a feat and you can’t use a shield. Also, why not use a shield on your character?

    5. When you are granted bonus 5 ft. steps, is this after your move action, or at the end of your turn, or usable between any two actions?

    6. If you wield a deft weapon, hold your action and take it later, then swap to a non-deft weapon and attack, does your initiative still drop by 2? If so, then what if you wait for a turn then swap weapons?

    7. If I have two 5 ft. steps for whatever reason, can I combine them to take 1 5 foot step on difficult terrain?

    8. Do Illusions fool sights such as tremorsense and ghostwise?

    9. The character sheet has the combat maneuver DC as 10+ 1/2 level + STR/DEX, but the book only says STR. Which do I apply? Also, what’s the reduction category on the sheet?

    That’s all for now, I’ll probably be back later with some other questions about this. Thanks for helping any way possible.

  54. VertigoCharades on said:

    1. This was a textual oversight; ignore the text you quoted there, and brace yourself for a re-built Serpent track for 1.0!

    2. The [Barbed] property makes your ranged weapon necessarily limited when it’s stuck onto an opponent. A bow with a sling of jagged, “barbed” arrows isn’t a [Barbed] weapon; a harpoon gun is. The penalties from multple [Barbed] weapons don’t stack, as they are the from the same source (same reason why multiple characters can’t Intimidate a monster into severe penalties).

    3. Not with itself, but yes with other abilities, for the same reason as the above answer.

    4. If you take a close look at how our weapons work now, you may notice that “handedness” as a concept is no longer part of weapon mechanics. And you’re right that at the moment, there’s no reason to not have a shield; same with light armor. We’ll be dealing with shields very soon…

    5. Bonus 5 ft steps may be used during your turn regardless of what you did for your move action(s).

    6. Our intent is that you lose the bonus to initiative when you swap out/drop your Deft weapon during your turn, but you don’t act on your new initiative count until the next [Round]. Don’t worry, this will be clarified.

    7. No.

    8. For now, yes. We’ll be more clear with Illusion spells in the next revision.

    9. Those are….sneak peaks, shall we say? Ignore the reduction section…for now.

  55. rtanen on said:

    Where can I find more description of the Hallow setting? It seems awesome, but there’s only tiny glimpses in the rulebook.

  56. Um… Surgical Precision doesn’t DO anything. Tacticians don’t get any Line, Spread, or Wedge effects with no duration line.

  57. This looks pretty cool. Is it possible to get a printed copy of Legend (for pay, obviously)?

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