Author Topic: Racial paragon  (Read 9865 times)

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Racial paragon
« on: September 30, 2013, 07:07:18 PM »
You are a pinnacle of your race, exemplifying it's positive qualities, becoming an inspiration to all of your kind



Circle 1: Heightened racial aspect:
Choose one of the following abilities:
if your race grants a bonus to a skill, you get a +3 bonus to that skill
if your race grants darkvision, you have [Blindsight] to [Melee] range
if your race grants a vision mode with a range, that range is doubled
if your race grants fast movement, you speed increases by 10ft
if your race grants [Lesser resistance] to a damage type, it increases to [Resistance]
if your race grants a +1 bonus to AC, that bonus increases to 2
if your race grants a +1 bonus to attacks, that bonus increases to 2
if your race grants a +1 bonus to a save, that bonus increases to 2

if your race grants none of these, you may pick one of the below abilities
[Blindsight] out to [Melee] range
your speed increases by 10ft
you gain a +1 bonus to AC, attacks, or a save

Circle 2:  Size mastery: You gain a bonus dependent on the size granted by your race
[Small]: You do not suffer penalties from being [Small]. All weapons you wield gain your choice [Guardian] or [Deft]. This choice is permanent.
[Average]:  You either gain +5ft speed and +1 AC or  +2 to saves vs. combat maneuvers and +1 to attacks .All weapons you wield gain your choice of [Reacting] or [Brutal]. This choice is permanent.
[Large] or larger: you do not suffer penalties from being [Large]. All weapons you wield gain your choice of [Reach] or [Magnum]. This choice is permanent.

 You also gain a +2 item bonus to an attribute modifier raised by your race. If your race does not raise any attribute, you may apply this to any attribute. This is your paragon attribute.

Circle 3: choose one of the following abilities
Racial toughness:  You gain +3 hp per level,  and a +3 bonus to the save governed by your paragon attribute.
Racial power: If you have a racial track for your race, calculate all level-dependent variables, such as range, damage, and DCs, for abilities from that track as if you were two levels higher. You gain +1 hp/level
 
Circle 4: Racial Toughness:
If your paragon attribute is intelligence, charisma, or wisdom, you gain [Resistance] to energy and magic damage.
If your paragon attribute is strength, constitution, or dexterity, you gain [Resistance] to physical damage.

Circle 5- Exemplification:
You gain a bonus based on your paragon attribute
Strength: You add your strength mod to damage instead of half of your strength mod. You gain a +2 bonus to the DCs for bull rush attempts, and once per [Round] when you  hit with an attack you may initiate a bull rush.

Constitution: You gain a +3 bonus to vigor checks, an additional 2 hp per level,  and have [Fast healing] equal to your level.

Dexterity: you gain a +10 ft bonus to your speed. Once per [Round], if you succeed on a reflex save you may move up to half your speed without provoking attacks of opportunity. Your speed is not reduced when using partial move actions.

Intelligence: you gain a +3 bonus on knowledge checks to identify creatures. Once per [Encounter], If you successfully identify a creature, it becomes [Vulnerable] to all damage you deal for 1 [Round]

Wisdom: All creatures within [Long]range are [Revealed] to you. Twice per [Encounter], as a swift action, you may increase the DC of the next ability you use by 3.

Charisma: You cause all opponents who have line of sight to you to be [Dazzled]. Normally articulate people find themselves for a loss of words when talking to you, granting your a +3 to the DC to use interaction skills against you.


Circle 6 - Stalwart paragon:
You gain an ability based on the save governed by your paragon attribute

Reflex: You gain [Immunity] to [Binding], moving out of a square of difficult terrain do not cost you extra movement, and you gain a +5 bonus to initiative

Fortitude: You gain [Immunity] to [Stunned], [Dazed], and [Nauseated]

Will: You gain [Immunity] to [Mind affecting] and [Fear] effects

Circle 7- Racial Apotheosis:
You are practically a god to your race. Once per [Scene], whenever you die or are rendered [Unconscious], you are revived at the beginning of the next [Round] with full HP. You can delay your revival or choose not to return at all. If you die more than once during a [Scene], you may come back to life at the beginning of the next [Quest].
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 01:07:52 AM by Mystify »
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

jared71

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Spell Casting Guide
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 12:06:26 AM »
Quote
if your race grants a +1 bonus to a save, that bonus increases to 2
if your race grants a +1 bonus to a save, you receive a +1 bonus to all saves instead.

Quote
Fortitude: You gain [Immunity] to [Bleeding], [Sickened] and [Nauseated]
[Sickened] and [Nauseated] can be picked up with a feat and is not as strong as the others.    Immunity to [dazed][stunned] or [prone] would be good.  (Choose one or maybe two).

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 01:55:01 AM »
Quote
if your race grants a +1 bonus to a save, that bonus increases to 2
if your race grants a +1 bonus to a save, you receive a +1 bonus to all saves instead.
That would dilute the racial identity
Quote
Fortitude: You gain [Immunity] to [Bleeding], [Sickened] and [Nauseated]
[Sickened] and [Nauseated] can be picked up with a feat and is not as strong as the others.    Immunity to [dazed][stunned] or [prone] would be good.  (Choose one or maybe two).
sickened, nauseated, and bleeding is already an existing 6th circle
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Zaq

  • Elite
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 02:04:14 AM »
I love the idea. Honestly, I feel like race matters a vanishingly small amount in Legend, and while I'm mostly okay with that, it's interesting to see this presented as an option.

C1: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't tracks giving feats considered to be officially Bad Juju?

C2: Neat. I love the idea of focusing on what seem like the smaller aspects of a race.

C3: The Racial Toughness option seems weaker than Judgment C3 (+3 HP/lv and +3 to a single save vs. +2 HP/lv, +3 to ALL saves, and [Immunity] to [Fear]). Do you feel like this needs addressing, or do you feel like it's balanced?

C4: I like this on its own, but it seems out of sorts with the rest of the track. Was there an inspiration behind it?

C5: Extremely cool. I love the fact that CHA makes social skills harder to use on you. INT worries me, though, since applying [Vulnerability] to all damage is, well, pretty huge. (Isn't that one of the big reasons Lurking Terror has been hushed up for cleanup?) Also, for CHA, I wonder if "opponents who look at you" is pretty vague. Might "opponents who have line of sight to you" or something similar be more in keeping with Legend's style?

C6: I'm with Jared that Fortitude seems a bit weaker, and that's no different on SC than on here. Perhaps include resistance or immunity to forced movement?

C7: This is good, but since this track is meant to accommodate a whole bunch of different kinds of characters, I wonder if it also wouldn't be appropriate to increase the save DCs of any abilities you activate while in the paragon trance, so that this doesn't disproportionately improve attackers over magic-types. (Sure, there's some overlap, but it's a C7 ability with an action cost that only works for one round, so it had BETTER be flashy.)
I do verb now and again, but gerunding is my real passion.

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 02:15:07 AM »
I love the idea. Honestly, I feel like race matters a vanishingly small amount in Legend, and while I'm mostly okay with that, it's interesting to see this presented as an option.

C1: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't tracks giving feats considered to be officially Bad Juju?
Yeah. I'd rather come up with something else, but most of the reasons to avoid it aren't as applicable here.

C3: The Racial Toughness option seems weaker than Judgment C3 (+3 HP/lv and +3 to a single save vs. +2 HP/lv, +3 to ALL saves, and [Immunity] to [Fear]). Do you feel like this needs addressing, or do you feel like it's balanced?
judgement c3 is also considered to be a very strong circle. Plus, its not a circle to circle balance, and I think the rest of this track can carry it.

C4: I like this on its own, but it seems out of sorts with the rest of the track. Was there an inspiration behind it?
It is fairly out of place. The inspiration was the fluff I wrote at the beginning about being an inspiration.
C5: Extremely cool. I love the fact that CHA makes social skills harder to use on you. INT worries me, though, since applying [Vulnerability] to all damage is, well, pretty huge. (Isn't that one of the big reasons Lurking Terror has been hushed up for cleanup?) Also, for CHA, I wonder if "opponents who look at you" is pretty vague. Might "opponents who have line of sight to you" or something similar be more in keeping with Legend's style?
its only for 1 round. it is really powerful, its also c6.
yeah, the wording could be cleaned up
C6: I'm with Jared that Fortitude seems a bit weaker, and that's no different on SC than on here. Perhaps include resistance or immunity to forced movement?
I'll try to rework it a bit
C7: This is good, but since this track is meant to accommodate a whole bunch of different kinds of characters, I wonder if it also wouldn't be appropriate to increase the save DCs of any abilities you activate while in the paragon trance, so that this doesn't disproportionately improve attackers over magic-types. (Sure, there's some overlap, but it's a C7 ability with an action cost that only works for one round, so it had BETTER be flashy.)
Boosting save DCs to the stratosphere can allow you to stick on some persistent effects that will basically instantly kill people.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Madwand

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2013, 02:17:02 AM »
I love the idea for this track, at least up to C3. After that, I think some of the circles/options are pretty weak:

C3: If I don't have a racial track, I should be able to choose an appropriate one.

C4: Just IMO, but this seems way too weak to be worth it.

C5: Dexterity seems weak. Can intelligence be used to re-identify a creature every round?

C7: Seems really weak to me. A swift action? I'd almost never bother use this power as-written, too many other really good options for swift actions.

Otherwise, this is one of the few homebrew tracks that actually excited me. Very nice idea.

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2013, 02:23:23 AM »
I love the idea for this track, at least up to C3. After that, I think some of the circles/options are pretty weak:

C3: If I don't have a racial track, I should be able to choose an appropriate one.
This is supposed to be amplifying your racial tendencies. Boosting a racial track fits with that, boosting an arbitrary track does not.

C4: Just IMO, but this seems way too weak to be worth it.
+1 attack and DCs for the entire party with no action cost is pretty nice.
C5: Dexterity seems weak. Can intelligence be used to re-identify a creature every round?
got any suggestions for dex?
I'm operating under the assumption that once you identify something it is identified.

C7: Seems really weak to me. A swift action? I'd almost never bother use this power as-written, too many other really good options for swift actions.
+5 to all d20 rolls and AC is pretty amazing.
Otherwise, this is one of the few homebrew tracks that actually excited me. Very nice idea.
I'm glad you like it.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Madwand

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 02:40:56 AM »
This is supposed to be amplifying your racial tendencies. Boosting a racial track fits with that, boosting an arbitrary track does not.
I get the reasoning, I just disagree with it. If my race is the fire-using Ifrit species for example, and I've taken Elementalist to express the innate abilities of my race, it should count as a racial track.

+1 attack and DCs for the entire party with no action cost is pretty nice.
It's not bad, but compared to Tactical Insight C1, Natures Power, or even Bless it seems fairly weak. These are all much lower-circle abilities that can be shared with the entire party for comparable or better benefit. Only Bless has a significant action cost (sometimes).

got any suggestions for dex?
Hmm. Maybe Evasion, or a Bleach-like "flash step" ability, or a [Bonus attack]. Look at Dervish for some ideas perhaps? A [Bonus attack] is only C2 in Dervish, so that plus something else?

+5 to all d20 rolls and AC is pretty amazing.
Not as a swift action. I'm only able to look at this from the perspective of my Just Blade user, and there's almost no way I'd prioritize this ability over a [Surge] effect. I like my C7 abilities to be much more awesome.

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 02:51:57 AM »
This is supposed to be amplifying your racial tendencies. Boosting a racial track fits with that, boosting an arbitrary track does not.
I get the reasoning, I just disagree with it. If my race is the fire-using Ifrit species for example, and I've taken Elementalist to express the innate abilities of my race, it should count as a racial track.
in that case I'd say that an Ifrit is an elemental and use the elemental(pony) race and take fire elemental, and boost that. Yeah, you can refluff anything to be because of your race, but if I follow that reasoning then this should provide a bonus to everything, which defeats the point.

+1 attack and DCs for the entire party with no action cost is pretty nice.
It's not bad, but compared to Tactical Insight C1, Natures Power, or even Bless it seems fairly weak. These are all much lower-circle abilities that can be shared with the entire party for comparable or better benefit. Only Bless has a significant action cost (sometimes).
alright, it could use a little bit of a boost.


got any suggestions for dex?
Hmm. Maybe Evasion, or a Bleach-like "flash step" ability, or a [Bonus attack]. Look at Dervish for some ideas perhaps? A [Bonus attack] is only C2 in Dervish, so that plus something else?
evasion is boring, [Bonus attacks] are firmly useful only for martial characters and would conflict with most of the dex based tracks already. What do you mean by a flash step, and how would it be different from shadow blink?
+5 to all d20 rolls and AC is pretty amazing.
Not as a swift action. I'm only able to look at this from the perspective of my Just Blade user, and there's almost no way I'd prioritize this ability over a [Surge] effect. I like my C7 abilities to be much more awesome.
The only thing I'd rather channel would themselves be high circle effects, and you would only have limited uses of them. I'd handily take +5 to all attacks for a swift over an elemental burst, for instance.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Madwand

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2013, 03:08:51 AM »
evasion is boring, [Bonus attacks] are firmly useful only for martial characters and would conflict with most of the dex based tracks already. What do you mean by a flash step, and how would it be different from shadow blink?
Something like Shadow Blink as a free action, perhaps. I'm just brain-storming. That still seems like too little, but perhaps it's enough with the speed boost.
I also like the idea of being able to take move actions out of turn. Another idea would perhaps to be able to take move actions as an immediate action.

The only thing I'd rather channel would themselves be high circle effects, and you would only have limited uses of them. I'd handily take +5 to all attacks for a swift over an elemental burst, for instance.
My attack bonus is high enough that I'd definitely channel an elemental burst first. This ability might have more use with Precision-based builds, at least if they don't have a better use for their swift action. I feel that's unlikely for most builds that get this high-level.

Zaq

  • Elite
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2013, 03:28:52 AM »
Lots of cool C7s are swifts. Ancestors, DotDragon, Reign of Arrows, Assassin, Just Blade, Tactical Insight, Celestial . . .

Anyway, regarding save DCs, saves already tend to succeed more often than they fail, so I don't see anything wrong with a C7 boost (that takes an action and only lasts 1 round) swinging that balance back around. It's not like there's really much that some other C7 can't counter. Maybe just make it a +2 or +3? Limit it to the next action you use? Specify that it's instead of the attack boost so Spellstoring/Just Blade doesn't end up getting too much?

I just feel like a character who relies on attack actions and a character who relies on SLA/Su/spells are both going to find something cool (and, likely, relatively different) in this track until C7, when the attack user says "cool, I get a massive bonus to defenses, and my attacks are way more likely to hit, so my offense is going to be way increased this round!" and the magic user says "cool, I get a massive bonus to defense, and a bonus to something I don't use!" It'd be one thing if the track wasn't so obviously meant to cater to such a variety of character types, but as it stands, it just feels really disproportionate.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 04:45:08 AM by Zaq »
I do verb now and again, but gerunding is my real passion.

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2013, 09:33:43 AM »
Lots of cool C7s are swifts. Ancestors, DotDragon, Reign of Arrows, Assassin, Just Blade, Tactical Insight, Celestial . . .

Anyway, regarding save DCs, saves already tend to succeed more often than they fail, so I don't see anything wrong with a C7 boost (that takes an action and only lasts 1 round) swinging that balance back around. It's not like there's really much that some other C7 can't counter. Maybe just make it a +2 or +3? Limit it to the next action you use? Specify that it's instead of the attack boost so Spellstoring/Just Blade doesn't end up getting too much?

I just feel like a character who relies on attack actions and a character who relies on SLA/Su/spells are both going to find something cool (and, likely, relatively different) in this track until C7, when the attack user says "cool, I get a massive bonus to defenses, and my attacks are way more likely to hit, so my offense is going to be way increased this round!" and the magic user says "cool, I get a massive bonus to defense, and a bonus to something I don't use!" It'd be one thing if the track wasn't so obviously meant to cater to such a variety of character types, but as it stands, it just feels really disproportionate.
This track already grants a +1 to DCs, and allows a swift action boost for another +3, and potentially has a +1 if its from a racial track. add in this, and we would have a +10 DC from this track alone. That is way too much. This track is already excellent for save DC boosting, it doesn't need any more.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 07:44:05 PM »
replaced the 7th circle entirely.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Zaq

  • Elite
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2013, 03:06:48 AM »
You know, I hadn't considered the other save DC boosts in play here. It's a lot less crazy if you're not WIS-based and if you don't take a racial track, but you do have a point.

The new C7 isn't bad, but it's horribly generic, as I hardly need to mention. Boringness of being generic aside, this is actually a little troublesome because no fewer than three racial tracks (Dragon, Undead, and Wildborn, and of course you may or may not think of Undead as more than one track) include a very similar rez at C7, and since some aspects of this track encourage taking a racial track, it is perhaps more likely than average to overlap. Maybe make it a choice between the new rez and the old Round of Awesome?
I do verb now and again, but gerunding is my real passion.

Madwand

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Racial paragon
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 04:29:24 AM »
I like the idea of a large temporary buff for C7, it seems to fit somehow. Just wasn't a fan of the original buff. Maybe something 1/[Scene] that would last for the [Encounter]?