Author Topic: Samurai track  (Read 5508 times)

Prime32

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 179
  • Problem Solver
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Samurai track
« on: April 20, 2012, 12:05:41 PM »
I tried to incorporate the Iaijutsu Practitioner, Diagonal Cut and Single Stroke Battle tropes. Demon Cutter is supposed to include things like slashing at a person to destroy their bonds without cutting them, and slashing at a thrown log to make firewood, but I wasn't sure how to incorporate them (does Legend have a way to tie people up normally?).



Samurai

A character with this track must select one weapon as his signature weapon (such as a longsword or pistol). Most abilities from this track function only while the character is wielding his signature weapon. You may treat only one mundane weapon as your signature weapon at once (which you may change between [Encounter]s), but may treat any number of magic weapons as signature weapons as long as they are of the correct type.

First Circle - Lightning Draw: You may draw your signature weapon from its sheath as a free action, even when it's not your turn. If you draw your signature weapon as part of an attack with it, you gain a bonus on the damage roll equal to your KOM + 2x the weapon's normal item bonus to attack rolls (if any). If your signature weapon cannot be sheathed then you perform an action which requires the same amount of effort, such as steadying your stance, making a one-liner, or similar.

Second Circle - Delayed Cut: When you attack with your signature weapon you may choose to gain a [Precision] bonus on the attack roll equal to half your number of circles in this track (rounded up), and add +1d6 [Precision] damage for each circle you possess in this track beyond 1st. An attack modified in this way does not take effect immediately, instead triggering when you next return your weapon to its sheath (you may choose to sheath your weapon without triggering the cut, or trigger the cut without sheathing your weapon by spending an action equivalent to sheathing the weapon). If you do not trigger a Delayed Cut within 1 [Round] its effects are lost. If you have applied multiple Delayed Cuts then you may trigger any number of them as a single action.

Third Circle - Demon Cutter: As a standard action you can cut apart spells with your signature weapon, as the dispel magic spell except that it affects a single spell of a maximum circle equal to your number of circles in this track. You may use this ability in conjunction with Delayed Cut, in which case you dispel up to two spells on the same target at once.

Fourth Circle - Counter: Once per [Encounter] when targeted by an attack or combat maneuver you may make an immediate attack/maneuver of the same type against them (i.e. a ranged attack with a ranged attack, a bull rush with a bull rush, etc.), which does not require an action. If countering a charge then you meet as close to the mid-point between your positions as you could normally reach as part of a charge. The attack with the lower attack roll automatically misses.

Fifth Circle - Instant Cut: As an immediate action you may use Demon Cutter, return your signature weapon to its sheath, or both.
In addition, in any [Round] where you start with your signature weapon sheathed or return it to its sheath, you become [Steadied] for the remainder of the [Round]. [Steadied] has no effect of its own, but while [Steadied] you can make one additional attack of opportunity per [Round], as long as it is made with your signature weapon.

Sixth Circle - Cleaving Cut: Your attacks with your signature weapon ignore the [Covered] condition, and you may opt to destroy the source of cover if it is made of steel or weaker materials (if the source of cover affects multiple squares, only the attacked square is affected). In addition, after hitting with an attack you may use Demon Cutter against the same target as a free action; you may use this ability once per [Round] per target.
Finally, you may use Counter twice per [Encounter].

Seventh Circle - Ultimate Cut: Your attacks with your signature weapon ignore [Damage Reduction] and [Resistance], as well as item bonuses to AC. If an attack would already ignore item bonuses to AC then it deals additional damage equal to your KOM
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 10:34:09 PM by Prime32 »

Tenno Seremel

  • Shaman
  • Elite
  • ***
  • Posts: 417
  • Destiny is chain for the weak.
  • Typo Hammer Ballot Box
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 12:16:32 PM »
Quote
Third Circle - Demon Cutter: As a standard action you can cut apart spells with your signature weapon, as the dispel magic spell except that it affects a single spell of a maximum circle equal to your number of circles in this track. You may use this ability in conjunction with Delayed Cut, in which case you dispel up to two spells on the same target at once.
Sage's Dweomertide (Arcana Secrets) is level 3rd and allows to dispel only 1 effect one circle lower than your highest Arcane Secrets circle. But then again it also grants Reweave, so I'm not sure.

Yoder

  • Sage
  • Miniboss
  • *****
  • Posts: 814
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist.
  • Ballot Box Eye of Seeing Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 12:21:15 PM »
For the first circle, why not say drawing takes an immediate action, since that's what you actually describe?
"Trifles go to make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."
~ Michelangelo

My Homebrew

My friend just shared this: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up the next session with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk."

delvin_anaris

  • Administrator
  • Minion
  • *****
  • Posts: 63
  • Problem Solver
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 12:30:18 PM »
For the first circle, why not say drawing takes an immediate action, since that's what you actually describe?

No, it's not. A free action used on someone else's turn is not at all the same thing as an immediate action.

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2012, 01:34:56 PM »
You have some cool effects, but the track is revolving around resheathing your weapon a dozen times in combat, which is just bizaar. I can't think of anything I have every seen which has that fighting style. In fact, I took some aikido courses, which was developed specifically to counter samurias with swords, and the best counter to a swordsman is to perform a certain maneuver when he is drawing his sword which essentially lets you disarm him and put him at the end of the sword all at once. Sheathing your weapon in the middle of combat seems like a silly thing to do, both from a practical standpoint and a style standpoint.
The Delayed cuts do have style,  but other than that delaying the effect of an attack is generally a bad strategy. If it would kill them, you just gave them an extra turn. Or if your ally kills them in the mean time, then one of you wasted your actions. And if you are prevented from taking a swift  on the following turn, you are losing all of those attacks. I can see some use if they use an ability to be immune to damage for a round, but that type of thing is 7th circle and rare. Maybe some use with delaying a round so it occurs after they heal, but again, highly circumstantial to get any benefit. You are offering a nice accuracy and damage boost for it, but it just strikes me as a bad strategy to use it.
Circle 3 and 4 seem useful and fine to me, but 5 and 6 are only action economy bonuses for existing abilities. While useful, they lack the punch of new abilities, and are directly adjacent, so the track may feel like it hits a lull.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Yoder

  • Sage
  • Miniboss
  • *****
  • Posts: 814
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist.
  • Ballot Box Eye of Seeing Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 01:40:45 PM »
For the first circle, why not say drawing takes an immediate action, since that's what you actually describe?

No, it's not. A free action used on someone else's turn is not at all the same thing as an immediate action.

Oh, nevermind. I must be remembering the way 3.5 did them.

~

@Mystify: It's called Battojustu. Reference Rurouni Kenshin and several other samurai (both fictional and real).
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 01:43:50 PM by Yoder »
"Trifles go to make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."
~ Michelangelo

My Homebrew

My friend just shared this: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up the next session with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk."

Prime32

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 179
  • Problem Solver
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 01:43:50 PM »
You have some cool effects, but the track is revolving around resheathing your weapon a dozen times in combat, which is just bizaar. I can't think of anything I have every seen which has that fighting style. In fact, I took some aikido courses, which was developed specifically to counter samurias with swords, and the best counter to a swordsman is to perform a certain maneuver when he is drawing his sword which essentially lets you disarm him and put him at the end of the sword all at once. Sheathing your weapon in the middle of combat seems like a silly thing to do, both from a practical standpoint and a style standpoint.
True in real life, less so in fiction.

Yoder

  • Sage
  • Miniboss
  • *****
  • Posts: 814
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist.
  • Ballot Box Eye of Seeing Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 01:45:44 PM »
You have some cool effects, but the track is revolving around resheathing your weapon a dozen times in combat, which is just bizaar. I can't think of anything I have every seen which has that fighting style. In fact, I took some aikido courses, which was developed specifically to counter samurias with swords, and the best counter to a swordsman is to perform a certain maneuver when he is drawing his sword which essentially lets you disarm him and put him at the end of the sword all at once. Sheathing your weapon in the middle of combat seems like a silly thing to do, both from a practical standpoint and a style standpoint.
True in real life, less so in fiction.

While I won't deny that all the techniques battojustu users use in fiction are unrealistic, the art of striking while unsheathing your sword for a better attack is real, I can assure you.
"Trifles go to make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."
~ Michelangelo

My Homebrew

My friend just shared this: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up the next session with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk."

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 01:56:26 PM »
I didn't deny that you can attack with a draw effectively. I simply question resheathing your weapon mid-combat to acheive the effect again. And I just can't picture doing that in my mind in any way that has style. Maybe a video of somebody fighting like that could convince me otherwise. However, readying a more powerful could work.
Honestly, It feels more appropriate to have a feat that lets you get extra damage on a draw than to try to form a track around reseathing our weapon every round.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Prime32

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 179
  • Problem Solver
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 02:35:14 PM »
I didn't deny that you can attack with a draw effectively. I simply question resheathing your weapon mid-combat to acheive the effect again. And I just can't picture doing that in my mind in any way that has style. Maybe a video of somebody fighting like that could convince me otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-XJvFBXLdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPXxFVyo5s#t=9s
And here's an extreme version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJMC361_kgQ
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 02:40:32 PM by Prime32 »

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 02:56:52 PM »
I didn't deny that you can attack with a draw effectively. I simply question resheathing your weapon mid-combat to acheive the effect again. And I just can't picture doing that in my mind in any way that has style. Maybe a video of somebody fighting like that could convince me otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-XJvFBXLdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPXxFVyo5s#t=9s
And here's an extreme version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJMC361_kgQ
Yeah, I'm still not giving it any style points. None whatsoever.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

gkathellar

  • Tactician
  • Global Moderator
  • Ace
  • *****
  • Posts: 610
  • Gender: Male
  • My right hand was thunder, and my left was stone
  • Scroll of Scribes RoC Staff Dungeon Delver Eye of Seeing Dev Team Art Aficionado Magic 8-Ball
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 03:22:40 PM »
Sheathing your weapon in the middle of combat seems like a silly thing to do, both from a practical standpoint and a style standpoint.

It's a pretty silly thing to do from a practical standpoint, since historical battojutsu and iaijutsu are more about quickly attacking or responding to an attack while your blade is still sheathed than they are about draw-cutting on every single attack.

That said, Legend is a game of cinematic combat. The guy who prefers or really does nothing but draw-cuts is a semi-established trope in anime and video games, and it can look pretty cool sometimes. Negima has a guy who does it with his hands in his pockets, to the sound of the HSQ in the room rising by 100%. It's kind of dumb, sure, but Legend is from Rule of Cool games, not Rule of Accurately Portraying Real Life Combat Technique games.

Secondly, as a martial artist with an interest in martial arts history, I can't let this lie:

In fact, I took some aikido courses, which was developed specifically to counter samurias with swords,

Beyond the fact that aikido is far more general in its applications than you're suggesting, this is a simple historical falsehood. Aikido was developed in the 20th century by Morihei Ueshiba, who was himself primarily a student of aiki-jujutsu — and while that is a much older martial art with some military roots, like most unarmed arts it would have been a weapon of last resort.
Seven is the Number of Legend.
This is my mod voice.

Mystify

  • Sage
  • In Mithril Reborn
  • ****
  • Posts: 3117
  • Gender: Male
  • Scroll of Scribes Typo Hammer Magic 8-Ball Editor's Highlight Ballot Box Dungeon Delver Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 03:32:55 PM »
Sheathing your weapon in the middle of combat seems like a silly thing to do, both from a practical standpoint and a style standpoint.

It's a pretty silly thing to do from a practical standpoint, since historical battojutsu and iaijutsu are more about quickly attacking or responding to an attack while your blade is still sheathed than they are about draw-cutting on every single attack.

That said, Legend is a game of cinematic combat. The guy who prefers or really does nothing but draw-cuts is a semi-established trope in anime and video games, and it can look pretty cool sometimes. Negima has a guy who does it with his hands in his pockets, to the sound of the HSQ in the room rising by 100%. It's kind of dumb, sure, but Legend is from Rule of Cool games, not Rule of Accurately Portraying Real Life Combat Technique games.
Then show me a place where it is actually cool. I was shown a turn based RPG that has a person standing around with their sword sheathed between attacks that had nothing to do with drawing swords, a guy who seemed to have his weapon sheathed most of the time because he was fighting unarmed, until he used it a few times to launch shockwaves, and looked really silly in the process, and a guy who was an animator's wet dream where they could just say he was doing things as he stood there doing nothing. It just looks stupid.
And it seems to be a fairly rare, very specific style to do it at all, which would be better suited to an iconic feat than building it into the core mechanics of a track. Or even just having the extra damage on a draw be a normal feat, then building the character to utilize often.



Secondly, as a martial artist with an interest in martial arts history, I can't let this lie:
In fact, I took some aikido courses, which was developed specifically to counter samurias with swords,

Beyond the fact that aikido is far more general in its applications than you're suggesting, this is a simple historical falsehood. Aikido was developed in the 20th century by Morihei Ueshiba, who was himself primarily a student of aiki-jujutsu — and while that is a much older martial art with some military roots, like most unarmed arts it would have been a weapon of last resort.
That is what my akido teacher told me, it revolves around countering people with swords . Preferably with your own sword, but nonetheless, your opponent having their weapon sheathed is the prime opening to counter them.
My extensive collection of homebrew
As always, Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly

Anzyr

  • Mook
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Scroll of Scribes Art Aficionado
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 03:55:24 PM »
Rare and specific? The Soul Calibur series has had not 1, but 2 characters that use iaijutsu style. Furthermore, resident Samurai Mitsurugi has a stance for iaijutsu use. Practicality aside, it's fairly common to see and could even be expressed in conjunction with the mythos of the "Wild West" as the quick draw. I'm not really sure what kind of awesomeness is required, but I am fairly certain the characters using iaijutsu in such series would find aikido to be less then effective against them.

Tenno Seremel

  • Shaman
  • Elite
  • ***
  • Posts: 417
  • Destiny is chain for the weak.
  • Typo Hammer Ballot Box
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Samurai track
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 04:17:15 PM »
There are also Johnny and Baiken from Guilty Gear.