Author Topic: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track  (Read 5882 times)

Yoder

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Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« on: May 05, 2012, 10:51:42 AM »
Here's my shot at bringing over the Weapon Scion idea from 3.5. Note that I would like this to be balanced when taken as a normal track (meaning the player gets another artifact) or as full buy-in (meaning that this should be equivalent to the combined abilities of the items you gave up). This weapon is a combined reference to 2 weapons from Densetsu no Yusha no Densetsu (Legend of the Legendary Heroes).

Thermal Edge [NON-UNIQUE]
This scythe has a thin crooked steel shaft, and it's blade appears to be made from glass. Though mages claim these weapons hold great power, few regard their claims. Those few that do regard the mages' claims have seen the blade deepen to a translucent red or blue hue in the hands of some warriors. For all the elemental devastation it can cause, it affects its user's nervous system and emotional state as violently as it can shift between hot and cold.

Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
Unless otherwise specified, the abilities of this track only function while Thermal Edge is in your possession. Thermal Edge is a [Reach], [Scything], and [Traumatizing] scythe. Thermal Edge is treated as a mundane weapon when used by any creature without this track.

1st Circle
Lesser Thermal Resistance: You can weather the elements to a low degree. Thermal Edge is treated as a Lesser Magical Item, and you gain [Lesser Resistance] to [Fire] and [Cold] damage.
Weapon Scion: Disregard the item bonus Thermal Edge would receive based upon its item tier. It instead gains a +1 item bonus for every circle you have of this track. Additionally, Thermal Edge does not take up a magical item slot.

2nd Circle
Thermal Blade: You can channel the elements through your edge. As a swift action, choose either [Fire] or [Cold]; Thermal Edge gains the [Elemental] property and [Energized] enchantment corresponding to the element you chose. You can switch elements as a swift action, and you can de-activate this ability as a free action.
Also, when [Fire] is chosen, you gain a bonus to Reflex and a penalty to Will saves equal to 1/2 your circles in this track rounded down. When [Cold] is chosen, the bonus and penalty are reversed.

3rd Circle
Thermal Resistance: You can weather the elements to a degree. Thermal Edge is instead treated as a Greater Magical Item, and you gain [Resistance] to [Fire] and [Cold] damage.

4th Circle
Thermal Surge: Your control over this scythe grows more stable. Thermal Edge gains the [Seeking] enchantment. Additionally, you gain a +1 to both Reflex and Will saves.

5th Circle
Greater Thermal Resistance: You can weather the elements to a high degree. Thermal Edge is instead treated as a Relic, and you gain [Greater Resistance] to [Fire] and [Cold] damage.

6th Circle
Thermal Strikes: You have full command of the elements. Thermal Edge gains the [Storming] enchantment, with the element changed to match Thermal Edge's current element.

7th Circle
Thermal Immunity: You laugh in the face of temperature. Thermal Edge is instead treated as an Artifact, and you gain [Immunity] to [Fire] and [Cold] damage.
Thermal Wave: This scythe's blade seems to reap an area much greater than your swing. Thermal Edge gains the [Shockwave] enchantment.

For those of you wanting to see the number-crunching that shows this track ends up balanced:
Spoiler
weapon scion: thermal edge [NON-UNIQUE]
   [elemental]: fire or cold damage
   [reach]: +5ft melee range
   [scything]: attack adjacent
   [traumatizing]: bleeding on crit
   (0.5) sophisticated: +1 property
   (1) energized: +2 elemental damage
   (1) seeking: flat damage instead of roll
   (6) resistant 3: immunity to fire and cold
   (3) shockwave: attack area
   (3) storming: 2 spells
   14.5 + 1(+1 bonus to ref & will) + 0.5(switching) = 16
   progression: 1.5, 3, 1.5, 2, 1.5, 3, 4.5
   
   fire boosts reflex, drains will; 1/2 circles rounded down
   cold drains reflex, boosts will; 1/2 circles rounded down
   resistance stacking leading to immunity; vulnerable to opposite element until immunity is gotten, maybe?

OLD Version from before Enchantment Point Buy:
Spoiler
Here's my shot at bringing over the Weapon Scion idea from 3.5. Note that I would like this to be balanced when taken as a normal track (meaning the player gets another artifact) or as full buy-in (meaning that this should be equivalent to the combined abilities of the items you gave up). This weapon is a combined reference to 2 weapons from Densetsu no Yusha no Densetsu (Legend of the Legendary Heroes).

Thermal Edge
This scythe has a thin crooked steel shaft, and it's blade appears to be made from glass. Though mages claim these weapons (this is not a unique item) hold great power, few regard their claims. Those few that do regard the mages' claims have seen the blade deepen to a translucent red or blue hue in the hands of a some warriors. Unfortunately, for all the elemental devastation it can cause, it affects its users emotional state as violently as it can shift between hot and cold.

Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
The abilities of this track only function while Thermal Edge is in your possession. Thermal Edge is a [Reach], [Scything], and [Traumatizing] scythe. Thermal Edge is treated as a mundane scythe when used by any creature without this track. All effects from this track end if Thermal Edge is no longer in your possession. Thermal Edge gives an attack roll bonus equal to your circles in this track. It also gives a -4 to will saves. The DC for all saves in this track is 10 + 1/2 character level + a physical ability modifier you choose upon taking this track.

1st Circle
Thermal Edge gives an item bonus to attack rolls equal to your circles in this track. Additionally, you gain the following abilities:
Thermal Endurance: You are always treated as being under the effects of Endure Elements.
Wicked Temperature: If you score a critical hit with Thermal Edge, until the start of your next turn you negate all temporary Endure Elements effects and [Resistance] or [Immunity] to [Fire] or [Cold] before applying any other effects of your attack.  Additionally when scoring a critical hit with Thermal Edge, any effect from this track from that hit requiring a save happens without the save.

2nd Circle
Thermal BladeSU: As a standard action, you may treat Thermal Edge as being affected by either Flame Blade [Fire] or Flame Blade [Ice] until changed again by this ability. No elemental energy effects other than those granted by this track affect Thermal Edge. As a free action, you may remove the Flame Blade effects from Thermal Edge.

3rd Circle
Thermal TrooperSLA: You gain passive [Resistance] to [Fire] and [Cold] energy. Additionally, once per [Encounter] as an immediate action, you may give all allies within [Long] range [Resistance] to [Fire] and [Cold] energy until the start of your next turn and treat all allies within [Long] range as being under the effects of Endure Elements until the end of the [Scene].

4th Circle
You gain the use of each of these abilities:
Thermal StrikeSU: As a move action, the target of your first attack with Thermal Edge that round must make a Reflex ([Fire]) or Fortitude ([Cold]) save or be [Blinded] for 2 rounds ([Fire]) or [Slowed] for 1 round ([Cold]). The energy type must match Thermal Edge's from Thermal Blade, and is unusable without Thermal Blade's effect active.
Thermal BurstSLA: As a standard action, you can summon a burst of energy targeting a single 5-foot square within [Medium] range that does 1d12 [Fire] or [Cold] damage for each circle in this track you possess. The target of this effect must make a Reflex ([Fire]) or Fortitude ([Cold]) save or be [Blinded] for 2 rounds ([Fire]) or [Slowed] for 1 round ([Cold]). The energy type must match Thermal Edge's from Thermal Blade, and is unusable without Thermal Blade's effect active.

5th Circle
Thermal VulnerabilitySU: As a swift action, the target of your next attack with Thermal Edge that round must make a Will save or gain [Vulnerability] to [Fire] or [Cold] until the start of your next turn. This effect doesn't not stack. This ability does not work if the target has [Immunity] to either [Fire] or [Cold] when struck. The energy type must match Thermal Edge's from Thermal Blade, and is unusable without Thermal Blade's effect active.

6th Circle
Thermal Mastery: Anytime you attack with Thermal Edge, any [Resistance] to [Fire] or [Cold] is halved for the purpose of calculating your attackā€™s damage. Even if a target has [Immunity] to [Fire] or [Cold], you are entitled to a character level check (DC 10 + the character level of your target) to inflict half damage. You do not bypass your own [Resistance] or [Immunity]. The energy type must match Thermal Edge's from Thermal Blade, and is unusable without Thermal Blade's effect active.

7th Circle
Thermal SurvivorSLA: You gain passive [Immunity] to [Fire] and [Cold] energy. Additionally, once per [Encounter] as an immediate action, you may give all allies within [Long] range [Immunity] to [Fire] and [Cold] energy until the end of your next turn and [Resistance] to [Fire] and [Cold] energy until the end of the [Encounter].
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 08:40:35 AM by Yoder »
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 02:00:17 PM »
You need to specify what the saves are for this track.

1st circle seems abusable. for instance, it is possible to get a crit range so high that it is essentially guaranteed, combining the To Iron Married line with heroica's ability to double the crit range of your partner. Now you can take something like monk, flurry, and then give them a no save stun. Every round, since with that crit range you will be critting at least once a round with overwhelming probability, and wham, instant stun lock.

thermal blade seems ok to me. Normally I would say that it should be 1/encounter, but since its your weapon only and it would last all encounter anyways, there doesn't seem to be much point to that.

thermal trooper's resistance to [fire] and [cold] may be iffy. One of them is a 2nd circle ability,  but this is third circle, so it may be fine. However, endure elements for the encounter is really odd. it normally lasts [scene], and for good reason. I doubt the effects of a hot or cold environment would occur on an [encounter] level. There are no rules for it in legend, but if we use D&D as a reference, then it would take minutes or longer  for the adverse effects to occur. That ability just doesn't seem to make sense.

Can thermal strike only be used when thermal blade is active? Can it only be used with the same energy type as the thermal blade? It seems odd to charge up a cold blade them hit them with a fire strike.

thermal vulnerability seems potent, but a 5th circle ability should be.

thermal mastery is exactly like elementalist's elemental mastery- only it takes a swift action. Why do you think it needs an action cost here?

the immunity to fire and cold is coming in  a tad later than the corresponding immunity from elementalist, but that is a secondary effect for their 2nd circle ability, while this is your 7th circle ability.  the ability to give all allies resistance is nice, but as yet  another standard action, it seriously lacks punch for a 7th circle ability. For one, its only useful if enemies are using  Thermal energy,  which is by no means a given. At the very least, it should probably be an immediate action- lower the action cost so it is not as prohibitive, and allows you to use it in response to it being needed. This is 7th circle, it should be potent. Also,  "your party" is not a game term. Try something like "All [allies] within [long] range".
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 02:22:49 PM »
You need to specify what the saves are for this track.

1st circle seems abusable. for instance, it is possible to get a crit range so high that it is essentially guaranteed, combining the To Iron Married line with heroica's ability to double the crit range of your partner. Now you can take something like monk, flurry, and then give them a no save stun. Every round, since with that crit range you will be critting at least once a round with overwhelming probability, and wham, instant stun lock.

thermal blade seems ok to me. Normally I would say that it should be 1/encounter, but since its your weapon only and it would last all encounter anyways, there doesn't seem to be much point to that.

thermal trooper's resistance to [fire] and [cold] may be iffy. One of them is a 2nd circle ability,  but this is third circle, so it may be fine. However, endure elements for the encounter is really odd. it normally lasts [scene], and for good reason. I doubt the effects of a hot or cold environment would occur on an [encounter] level. There are no rules for it in legend, but if we use D&D as a reference, then it would take minutes or longer  for the adverse effects to occur. That ability just doesn't seem to make sense.

Can thermal strike only be used when thermal blade is active? Can it only be used with the same energy type as the thermal blade? It seems odd to charge up a cold blade them hit them with a fire strike.

thermal vulnerability seems potent, but a 5th circle ability should be.

thermal mastery is exactly like elementalist's elemental mastery- only it takes a swift action. Why do you think it needs an action cost here?

the immunity to fire and cold is coming in  a tad later than the corresponding immunity from elementalist, but that is a secondary effect for their 2nd circle ability, while this is your 7th circle ability.  the ability to give all allies resistance is nice, but as yet  another standard action, it seriously lacks punch for a 7th circle ability. For one, its only useful if enemies are using  Thermal energy,  which is by no means a given. At the very least, it should probably be an immediate action- lower the action cost so it is not as prohibitive, and allows you to use it in response to it being needed. This is 7th circle, it should be potent. Also,  "your party" is not a game term. Try something like "All [allies] within [long] range".

Well, I'm glad you don't think it's too strong, or did you not notice the +Circle to attack rolls?

I have clarified what I mean with the first circle's crit-ing. It should have only applied to effects from this track.

Thermal Blade isn't 1/encounter so the player can change element if there's a variety of enemies w/ varying weaknesses or an enemy can switch vulnerability (think a JRPG boss).

I suppose I should make the distinction of Thermal Strike and the others more clear.

I left 7th Circle w/o a real kicker due to the weapon becoming 3 better than an artifact by the end, which is reward enough in itself.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 03:29:20 PM »
You need to specify what the saves are for this track.

1st circle seems abusable. for instance, it is possible to get a crit range so high that it is essentially guaranteed, combining the To Iron Married line with heroica's ability to double the crit range of your partner. Now you can take something like monk, flurry, and then give them a no save stun. Every round, since with that crit range you will be critting at least once a round with overwhelming probability, and wham, instant stun lock.

thermal blade seems ok to me. Normally I would say that it should be 1/encounter, but since its your weapon only and it would last all encounter anyways, there doesn't seem to be much point to that.

thermal trooper's resistance to [fire] and [cold] may be iffy. One of them is a 2nd circle ability,  but this is third circle, so it may be fine. However, endure elements for the encounter is really odd. it normally lasts [scene], and for good reason. I doubt the effects of a hot or cold environment would occur on an [encounter] level. There are no rules for it in legend, but if we use D&D as a reference, then it would take minutes or longer  for the adverse effects to occur. That ability just doesn't seem to make sense.

Can thermal strike only be used when thermal blade is active? Can it only be used with the same energy type as the thermal blade? It seems odd to charge up a cold blade them hit them with a fire strike.

thermal vulnerability seems potent, but a 5th circle ability should be.

thermal mastery is exactly like elementalist's elemental mastery- only it takes a swift action. Why do you think it needs an action cost here?

the immunity to fire and cold is coming in  a tad later than the corresponding immunity from elementalist, but that is a secondary effect for their 2nd circle ability, while this is your 7th circle ability.  the ability to give all allies resistance is nice, but as yet  another standard action, it seriously lacks punch for a 7th circle ability. For one, its only useful if enemies are using  Thermal energy,  which is by no means a given. At the very least, it should probably be an immediate action- lower the action cost so it is not as prohibitive, and allows you to use it in response to it being needed. This is 7th circle, it should be potent. Also,  "your party" is not a game term. Try something like "All [allies] within [long] range".

Well, I'm glad you don't think it's too strong, or did you not notice the +Circle to attack rolls?

I have clarified what I mean with the first circle's crit-ing. It should have only applied to effects from this track.

Thermal Blade isn't 1/encounter so the player can change element if there's a variety of enemies w/ varying weaknesses or an enemy can switch vulnerability (think a JRPG boss).

I suppose I should make the distinction of Thermal Strike and the others more clear.

I left 7th Circle w/o a real kicker due to the weapon becoming 3 better than an artifact by the end, which is reward enough in itself.
If the scaling bonus is replacing the 7th circle ability, then it is too powerful all the rest of the time. You should consider it part of the first circle, much like a barbarian's rage, and have a real 7th circle ability. That, or don't give the bonus until 7th circle.
Also, you should type the bonus. Right now, you could attach the immaculate hilt to it and get both bonuses. 
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Yoder

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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 04:27:46 PM »
The "+Circle to AtkRol" bonus is supposed to be something common between all weapon scions, so part of the track not part of a circle. I was only saying that the attack bonus constantly getting better is enough for the last circle to not be epic. Also, putting anything much better into Circle 7 would surely unbalance the track.

Is an enhancement bonus what weapons naturally get for being higher magical tiers? That's the bonus it's filling in for.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 04:34:47 PM »
The "+Circle to AtkRol" bonus is supposed to be something common between all weapon scions, so part of the track not part of a circle. I was only saying that the attack bonus constantly getting better is enough for the last circle to not be epic. Also, putting anything much better into Circle 7 would surely unbalance the track.

If that is the case, then being at circle 6 is overpowered, because you have most of the bonus, and you haven't taken the poor 7th circle yet. You can't count all of the bonus on 7th circle. Basically, at the end of every circle, you have to account for "...and an additional +1 to hit". Accounting for all of it at 7th circle doesn't make sense, because it doesn't all occur at 7th circle. It is a bonus that exists for the entirety of the track, and it must be balanced against the whole. Otherwise you don't meet A=A'.
Is an enhancement bonus what weapons naturally get for being higher magical tiers? That's the bonus it's filling in for.
I think its an item bonus
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 06:24:43 PM »
I'm not lumping it all in at 7th circle, that's just where it's accounted for.
Also, I think you're underestimating immunity to 2 energy types.
A=A' does not apply to individual circles, only the whole track.
Plus, it must also be considered that this track gives a significant negative (-4 Will) and none of the track functions without having the weapon in your possession. I do believe these count toward the balancing of the track in a big way, since that makes Will saves very difficult against an opponent of the same level as you and disarming causes huge problems.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 08:43:20 PM »
I'm not lumping it all in at 7th circle, that's just where it's accounted for.
Which means that anyplace before 7th circle, its not accounted for, and hence the problem.
Also, I think you're underestimating immunity to 2 energy types.
Its nice, but I'm not that impressed. elementalist gets immunity as part of their 2nd circle ability, and has really awesome high level powers as well. fire elementalist gets fire immunity at 1st circle, and gets to heal from it to boot.
A=A' does not apply to individual circles, only the whole track.
A=A' means that at every level, 2 characters should be equal. So at 20th level it may balance out, but it needs to balance at 1st level, at 15th level, and every other level. You can't penalize the 7th circle ability for the bonus you have had for the entire game. Even at low levels when you could have a magic weapon for that bonus, it still matters because it means you can get a different item for that slot.
Plus, it must also be considered that this track gives a significant negative (-4 Will) and none of the track functions without having the weapon in your possession. I do believe these count toward the balancing of the track in a big way, since that makes Will saves very difficult against an opponent of the same level as you and disarming causes huge problems.
Yeah, I don't think that penalty is appropriate either. At 1st level, you get a +1 to attack, and a -4 will, and endure elements. A barbarian, in contrast, gets +1 attack, +1 damage, +1 fort, +1 will, and 2 temp hp. Endure elements is mostly fluff, even, and a a [scene] duration effect, is equivalent to 1 spell. a 1st level shaman can learn endure elements, cast it on themselves,and have another spell slot open still, not even counting bonus spells.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 09:11:48 PM »
Not all tracks have an epic 7th Circle, so I don't see your point. If other tracks can do it to retain balance, I don't see why mine can't.

I honestly don't consider the Fire Elemental to be balanced with the other Legend tracks due to the immunity and healing (and other abilities the track gets).

A=A' is far from true on the individual level basis. Some tracks don't reach their potential for a while while others peak early on. I don't deny that it would be a nice goal, but I do not believe that to be true in Legend.

That's far from what I was saying. I think the penalty is appropriate, so you aren't agreeing with me on anything. The Will penalty is part of the nature of the weapon narratively; to not have it would betray a big part of the weapon and the balance of the track.
Why is it so wrong to have a track that starts out weaker and gets stronger by the end. That's generally the way mages work compared to fighters. Seriously, show me a normal Level 1 tactician/shaman that can stand up against a normal Level 1 barbarian at, with all other factors the same.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 09:16:13 PM by Yoder »
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 10:31:17 PM »
Why is it so wrong to have a track that starts out weaker and gets stronger by the end. That's generally the way mages work compared to fighters. Seriously, show me a normal Level 1 tactician/shaman that can stand up against a normal Level 1 barbarian at, with all other factors the same.
That is exactly the type  of thing the A=A' is supposed to prevent. That is exactly the opposite of A=A'. And while a level 1 shaman or tactician may not be able to stand up one on one, that is because a shaman or tactician is designed for support, and hence looking at them individually is going to be misleading. Their effect on the course of the battle via supporting allies makes them just as useful as a barbarian.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 10:49:19 PM »
Why is it so wrong to have a track that starts out weaker and gets stronger by the end.
That is exactly the type  of thing the A=A' is supposed to prevent. That is exactly the opposite of A=A'.
Correct.

Yoder, one of the primary goals in developing Legend was to eliminate "Linear Warriors, Quadratic Mages." "Give up power now for extra power later" is not exactly stellar design, and is completely antithetical to Legend's approach.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 11:23:56 PM »
But if we can't look at 2 characters individually, how can basic balance be achieved? You seem to want A+B = A'+B' (to account for support characters), which does not ensure individual balance. I know certain classes may be designed for different things, but then aren't support classes not really balanced with damage-dealing classes (support being near-useless one-on-one)? You cannot deny that the mages in Legend are still largely quadratic, as a L20 Shaman is much more powerful than a L20 Barbarian. While I can appreciate that Legend has that goal (though in real life making sacrifices in the present to ensure a greater future is incredibly wise), it seems hypocritical to claim that goal and not fulfill it in the most basic sense (mages=fighters).
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2012, 12:18:53 AM »
But if we can't look at 2 characters individually, how can basic balance be achieved? You seem to want A+B = A'+B' (to account for support characters), which does not ensure individual balance. I know certain classes may be designed for different things, but then aren't support classes not really balanced with damage-dealing classes (support being near-useless one-on-one)? You cannot deny that the mages in Legend are still largely quadratic, as a L20 Shaman is much more powerful than a L20 Barbarian. While I can appreciate that Legend has that goal (though in real life making sacrifices in the present to ensure a greater future is incredibly wise), it seems hypocritical to claim that goal and not fulfill it in the most basic sense (mages=fighters).
But people aren't running around by themselves. They are running around in a party, and hence if their contribution to  the party is equal, then they are equal. Context is important. Look at bastion: By yourself, it is worthless. As part of a team, it is great. You can't say bastion is a weak track because it solos poorly. The ability to solo is not a good indicator of balance. Balance is not determined by looking at a single case. In some cases, characters may be stronger than others. But in other cases the reverse may occur. Some characters may excel against others. Balance is a general quality, not a specific one. If all characters were equally capable in every situation against every potential opponent or combination of opponents, it would be boring, and everyone would be identical. You have to consider the overall scope of things.
And I do refute your claim that a level 20 shaman is much more powerful than a level 20 barbarian.  The shaman may be showy, but the barbarian is still holding his own. Though the barbarian class as written does need some work(their 7th level circle for rage is a distinct disadvantage), there is not some huge gap between the two. The lack of a mage/fighter division is one of the things that attracted me to legend.
And any discrepancies that do exist are things that should be fixed, not a free pass to ignore balance in your own track.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2012, 09:40:20 AM »
Unless you're solo-ing, which Legend should logically support. I find it odd that some classes are almost completely invalid as far as solo-ing is concerned.
If balance is such a general quality, then how can you really determine how well anything is balanced unless you consider every situation? Also, you can't tell me that all tracks have equal power increase at the same circle; some tracks jump up at particular circles.

The shaman, if starting 2x barbarian's move speed + 5ft away (provided both shaman and barbarian have same move speed), can easily stay away and pepper the barbarian with spells while taking no damage, teleporting away if in danger, or infinitely healing himself.

I was merely pointing out that the discrepancies in my track are minor compared to huge imbalances in some current material (fire elemental). I don't think ironing out everything to the point of absolutely perfect balance is possible, so I don't honestly see the need to give my track some bombastic 7th circle ability and attempt to figure out some way to compensate for it in the lower circles.
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Re: Weapon Scion: Thermal Edge track
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2012, 10:27:54 AM »
Unless you're solo-ing, which Legend should logically support. I find it odd that some classes are almost completely invalid as far as solo-ing is concerned.
If balance is such a general quality, then how can you really determine how well anything is balanced unless you consider every situation? Also, you can't tell me that all tracks have equal power increase at the same circle; some tracks jump up at particular circles.

The shaman, if starting 2x barbarian's move speed + 5ft away (provided both shaman and barbarian have same move speed), can easily stay away and pepper the barbarian with spells while taking no damage, teleporting away if in danger, or infinitely healing himself.

I was merely pointing out that the discrepancies in my track are minor compared to huge imbalances in some current material (fire elemental). I don't think ironing out everything to the point of absolutely perfect balance is possible, so I don't honestly see the need to give my track some bombastic 7th circle ability and attempt to figure out some way to compensate for it in the lower circles.
Your argument is boiling down to "The current rules has some balance issues, so I am exempt from trying to balance my track". You are not even trying to acheive balance. That attitude is what leads to balance issues piling up, growing, and eventually breaking the system. Many of the existing tracks are being revised, entire mechanics are being altered, all to improve the balance. They  are actively working to improve the a balance. You can't just sit there and refuse to consider the balance of your track if you want people to take your design seriously. Yes, perfect balance may be infeasible, but that doesn't mean you stop trying.

And the shaman and barbarian would not have the same move speed. The barbarian is str as kom, so if they train athletics (and why wouldn't they?) they have the higher move speed. If the barbarian does reach the shaman, he has several abilities that will harm the shaman more because he is a shaman. And yes, if the shaman only fights the barbarian and that is all they do for the scene, but they do have limited spells per scene, where the barbarian does not. If they use up an inordinate amount of spells teleporting away, then they won' t have them later. And they would not be  fighting in a void. If they are on a real battlefield, if the shaman teleports away(though they don't have any teleporting spells on their list, so I don't know why you think they can do that), then the barbarian can dart behind cover,and avoid spells being tossed at him. The barbarian is certainly going to have a higher damage output than spell slinging would, and a lot more health.
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