Author Topic: Shield Properties  (Read 4578 times)

Yoder

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Shield Properties
« on: May 16, 2012, 07:18:00 PM »
Okay, first off, for this system to work in a more balanced way, Brutal will scale linearly, not triangularly, meaning that it goes 1,2,3 instead of 1,3,6. I'm sure other effects could use nerfing for my proposal, but Brutal was the main problem. For ease, they will be listed by the associated Weapon property so you can see what I've done (renaming these is an obvious need once they're all done). Ellipses [...] indicate that the rest of the text in the entry is identical to the weapon property's (with obvious word replacement and removal of N/A aspects).

SHIELD PROPERTIES

Barbed shields can be made to stick in an attacker on a melee hit, inflicting a -1 penalty to all saves against combat manuevers. You cease to wield a shield stuck in an attacker this way. ...
Brutal +1 [Damage Reduction] to [Physical] damage
Deft ...
Devastating shields halve the distance of any successful push made by an attacker as the result of a Bull Rush. ...
Disarming shields grant their wielders a +1 against the DC of any Disarm combat maneuver activated against them. ...
Distant +1 [Damage Reduction] to [Physical] damage for every range increment an attacker is away from you.
Elemental Damage Reduction for your shield properties applied to [Elemental] damage as well.
Guardian +1 to Attack Rolls
Hold-Out ...
??? Magnum shields allow their wielders to treat their [Resistance] or [Damage Reduction] as being 5 higher than it is.
Parrying shields can be used as an immediate action (to support AoO) to increase the damage received by an opponent from a single attack by their wielders KOM.
Point-Blank You gain 1d4 [Damage Reduction to [Physical] damage, plus 1d4 per ten levels of the wielder, against opponents attacking from [Long] or [Extreme] range.
Reach Decrease the melee range of enemies attacking you by 5ft (min 5ft).
Reacting ...
Quick-Draw ...
??? Scything
Thrown ...
??? Traumatizing [Immunity] to [Bleeding]
Tripping shields grant their wielders a +1 bonus against the DC of any Trip combat manuever activated against them. ...
??? Unbalancing [Immunity] to [Flat-Footed]

The basic way to think of it is that each of your hands or weapon/shield slots has 3 points for a total of 6. Now, the combinations are 6 points to a weapon w/o a shield 6 points to a shield w/o a weapon and 3 points to each. No other division of points is possible, and even someone who fights best with 1 weapon and a free hand can benefit from the 6 points. I know this gives 3 extra weapon properties, but Brutal stays capped at 6 extra damage. Along w/ nerfing some other properties and potentially decreasing the point allocation from 6 to 4, I'm certain this can be balanced. I think this provides for a more interesting interplay of weapons and shields, making players wonder if their weapon that exceeds at tripping would do well against an opponent w/ a shield who may have multiple layers of trip defense.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 09:33:07 PM by Yoder »
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GRM13

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Re: [WIP] Shield Properties
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 07:26:35 PM »
Though I like the concept that you are bringing I think that something that should be considered are properties that are shield only just like there are those that are weapon only (like reach). also wondernig how it will affect weapons since even with the nerf to Brutal you are still basically buffing all other type of weapons that focus on effect. a weapon with reach 3, disarm, trip, and brutal.

Also you specified  how the nerf affects the front load of brutal's bonus, but what about the +1/ x lvl portion.

as I mention curious on how you will make this work so this is more of some stuff for you to look into. Again very interested on how this whole thing will go.

Mystify

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Re: [WIP] Shield Properties
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 07:47:43 PM »
Your magnum shields are too good. You can get resistance to all damage, and now you have a shield property granting 5 resistance to all damage. Way too powerful.
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Yoder

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Re: [WIP] Shield Properties
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 11:19:53 PM »
Yeah, this is still very rough. Yup, not every weapon property has its own logical counterpart, because this is just a starting point.

Yeah, nerfing Brutal does make the others much nicer, bit allowing Brutal and having another 3 property slots would result in a bit too much power (and that's not even considering the player taking [Brutal 6]).

Wow, I had completely missed the backbite damage from brutal; that makes me feel much better about it in its un-nerfed form.

*begins ruminating*

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I'm aware of that, Mystify. This was just a quick and dirty initial conversion...
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Re: [WIP] Shield Properties
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 11:56:53 PM »
and that's not even considering the player taking [Brutal 6].

well someone taking [Brutal 6] in this system would be the same as someone taking [Brutal 3] in the regular one so it would be no different (in fact it would probably be much weaker as the bonus gained could be considered so minimal unless one makes a huge investment that it'd be better of just filling it with other properties).

Djtooth

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Re: [WIP] Shield Properties
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 10:26:55 AM »
Does this allow [tripping 3] or [disarming 3]?
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Yoder

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Re: [WIP] Shield Properties
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 05:20:24 PM »
Oh, sorry. I was thinking it but didn't say it. I was talking about normal Brutal again, because that would result in 21 damage w/ 1.4 damage per level.

Yeah, for both weapons and shields in this alternative, a lot more of these can be chosen multiple times. I'll get to marking those for both Weapons and armor at a later time.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 09:34:10 PM by Yoder »
"Trifles go to make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."
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Yoder

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Re: Shield Properties
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 09:33:39 PM »
The Shield Properties are mostly done now.
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Kalik

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Re: Shield Properties
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 09:47:03 PM »
1d4 damage reduction.....
To gain any of this benefit, you would have to invest one point in guardian to have a shield in the first place.
Reach is oh, so, silly. You are at the edge of their melee, they can't hit you. That's not right.
Traumatizing is a 6th level feat
And shield don't have properties in the first place for a reason. This system wasn't made to have long, gritty fights with nothing happening. You are suppose to hit them. They are suppose to hit you. It's set up as a race to the finish, not a war of attrition.

Yoder

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Re: Shield Properties
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2012, 10:06:24 PM »
1d4 damage reduction.....
To gain any of this benefit, you would have to invest one point in guardian to have a shield in the first place.
Reach is oh, so, silly. You are at the edge of their melee, they can't hit you. That's not right.
Traumatizing is a 6th level feat
And shield don't have properties in the first place for a reason. This system wasn't made to have long, gritty fights with nothing happening. You are suppose to hit them. They are suppose to hit you. It's set up as a race to the finish, not a war of attrition.

In this alternative to the weapon system, you don't need to take Guardian to have a shield. A shield and weapon are equally viable, as is sticking to just one or the other.

What's wrong with making the enemy come up to your face? It makes the attacker give serious thought as to how close they should get instead of prancing at the fringes of each other's melee ranges.

As for Traumatizing, that's why I have the emote there. I can't quite think of an equivalent (if there should be one).

I disagree with that assessment; why should the shield get less attention than the weapon? This adds more strategy to battles, and there's far from nothing going on. Making battles last a bit longer isn't some heinous crime, you know.
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My friend just shared this: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up the next session with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk."

Judanas

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Re: Shield Properties
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2012, 01:58:21 PM »
1d4 damage reduction.....
To gain any of this benefit, you would have to invest one point in guardian to have a shield in the first place.
Reach is oh, so, silly. You are at the edge of their melee, they can't hit you. That's not right.
Traumatizing is a 6th level feat
And shield don't have properties in the first place for a reason. This system wasn't made to have long, gritty fights with nothing happening. You are suppose to hit them. They are suppose to hit you. It's set up as a race to the finish, not a war of attrition.

I'd personally agree there. Shields and Armour should really be given equal attention to swords and axes. There are many character who are iconic because of their defensive prowess, not simply their ability to deal damage faster than the other guy. I believe that playing defensively SHOULD be an option, not just playing 'Race to dead'

The lack of separation shields and armour have from each other is one of my personal complaints with the system when it has such a nice weapon system.

Djtooth

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Re: Shield Properties
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2012, 10:02:55 PM »
If you will have shield properties  then combined them both into armed qualities to give the player full control over how they will be armed.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 02:27:12 AM by Djtooth »
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Yoder

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Re: Shield Properties
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2012, 12:49:01 AM »
I'm not against that idea. At first, I'd rather develop Shield Properties separately. Integration with the Weapon Properties will come later.
"Trifles go to make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."
~ Michelangelo

My Homebrew

My friend just shared this: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up the next session with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk."