Author Topic: Level 0  (Read 4415 times)

Yoder

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Level 0
« on: July 04, 2012, 03:02:42 PM »
*hopes this doesn't count as Homebrew* Well, I guess house rules do.

So, I've been thinking about this for a while now. That tracks are 7 circle long, and you traditionally get 3 of them is great and wonderful. However, cramming 21 levels into 20 doesn't sit right with me. I know all it really does is put C1 of your Fast and Medium tracks in the same circle, but that imbalance feels off given how generally smooth Legend is otherwise. So, I thought up a "house rule" way around it.

Level 0 is when you get C1 of your Fast track. Level 0 is also ideal for modeling children, the sickly, and the elderly, given that normal NPC adults are assumed to be L1. Also, since you get twice the health at L1, it makes sense that L0 is when you'd have the normal amount, which smooths that out as well. Additionally, your first feat could go in L0 so you truly gain feats every 3rd level.

Basically, you could treat the feat and circle you get at L1 as being somehow inherent to your character, which may help players come up with a richer backstory (especially if they built their character mechanically first, as new players are apt to do). Unless you start the game as children, it'd really have no mechanical significance. It's just an idea sparker that I thought some of you might find interesting.


Example:
I'll use the backstory of a character I've already made and fleshed-out for these purposes:
Name: Aegis
Fast Track: Shaman Spell Circle
First Feat: Danger Sense

Sample backstory based on the above stats: Aegis is a young healer-in-training. The women in her family have always been village healers, and she'll be no different. Living in a remote village, they count on her family to be experts at their trade. Although she used to spend much time out in the forests surrounding her home, she has to dedicate most of her time to her training now that she's older.

This is a really basic example, but it can help players who are having writer's block.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 05:18:57 PM by Yoder »
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Djtooth

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 03:15:21 PM »
so at lev 0 you gain your racial then at level one you gain a feat?
That works very well, im assuming you gain your lesser at lev 1?
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Yoder

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2012, 03:21:37 PM »
The Lesser would stay at L1, but I think the feat could go back to L0 without much problem (as it provides smoother flow of feat acquisition and more ideas with which to flesh-out a character than a single circle would alone).

EDIT: I added an example to help.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 03:30:01 PM by Yoder »
"Trifles go to make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."
~ Michelangelo

My Homebrew

My friend just shared this: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up the next session with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk."

Geigan

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2012, 04:56:41 PM »
I actually like how you get a pair of 1st circles at lvl 1 as opposed to just one and having it stretched out to lvl 21. It helps speed up the early game and gets you more of your interesting abilities earlier rather than taking longer to get al your track's circles. I can see why it would bother some people and I approve of the houserule for those it does bother.

Yoder

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2012, 05:00:27 PM »
Thanks for the approval. ;)
I would imagine that most campaigns would start at L1 even with this house rule, so it would have absolutely no mechanical impact in those cases. It can if you do start at L0, but that's not the primary intention of this idea. It's main goal is to help w/ character backstory for those that need it (and model characters weaker than the average NPC adult).
"Trifles go to make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."
~ Michelangelo

My Homebrew

My friend just shared this: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up the next session with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk."

Geigan

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2012, 05:03:54 PM »
Thanks for the approval. ;)
I would imagine that most campaigns would start at L1 even with this house rule, so it would have absolutely no mechanical impact in those cases. It can if you do start at L0, but that's not the primary intention of this idea. It's main goal is to help w/ character backstory for those that need it (and model characters weaker than the average NPC adult).
Stamp of random forum poster approval...yeah. Anyway, that makes sense.

DragoonWraith

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2012, 08:49:50 PM »
I approve of the stated purpose of the rule.

The dev team briefly considered making Legend 21 levels long for symmetry purposes, but ultimately it was decided that it was a bad idea because playing at level 1 would then be a really bad idea. Doesn't make sense to include an option that the dev team doesn't think is a good idea to actually use. But for modeling NPCs or thinking about a backstory, it does make good sense. Explicitly labeling it level 0 (instead of level 1 and going to 21) is also a good idea, since it makes it clearer that it's not a real level.
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gkathellar

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 09:33:38 PM »
I could see this as a viable option for "character introduction sessions" of the type some games propose ... sort of like playing out the events immediately preceding your character's Exaltation in Exalted, and such. You wouldn't want to actually do much play at Level 0, but as a tool, it could theoretically have some use.
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Djtooth

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 10:15:21 PM »
How come when I said this I was told it was a horrible idea?
1k posts might be why.
Give other people a chance.
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grayswx

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 10:40:47 PM »
... but ultimately it was decided that it was a bad idea because playing at level 1 would then be a really bad idea.

Why does everyone have this need to start playing at level 1? It makes sense to me to have several low levels that you never expect the players to use, just to represent weak enemies and civilians and the like. Although I don't necessarily mind there being a 0 and even negative levels, either.

...

I have the sudden urge to go add a 0th circle to every track and say players start out at level 4, but that's not really feasible.

gralamin

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2012, 12:51:32 AM »
... but ultimately it was decided that it was a bad idea because playing at level 1 would then be a really bad idea.

Why does everyone have this need to start playing at level 1? It makes sense to me to have several low levels that you never expect the players to use, just to represent weak enemies and civilians and the like. Although I don't necessarily mind there being a 0 and even negative levels, either.

...

I have the sudden urge to go add a 0th circle to every track and say players start out at level 4, but that's not really feasible.

There is little point to having levels you aren't supposed to play at. You might as well have separate rules for low level creatures if players aren't supposed to be.

Prime32

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2012, 11:28:54 AM »
There is little point to having levels you aren't supposed to play at. You might as well have separate rules for low level creatures if players aren't supposed to be.
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Kitsune_Kinomi

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2012, 12:30:52 PM »
There is little point to having levels you aren't supposed to play at. You might as well have separate rules for low level creatures if players aren't supposed to be.

I think this is used mostly for DM's who want to be very detailed and character sheets for characters with no fighting capabilities. I don't think it's intended for PC's unless your playing children for some reason. Another thing that this would be useful for would be giving some direction and depth to your PC's back story. They start out with two abilities so based on this rule it would mean that your PC developed one of those skills on as a profession before he became a adventure. It lets you think about why they might have gotten that first level skill.

So it does have a good bit of use, it's just mostly for DM's and helping PC's come up with better back story, AKA narrative reasons.
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grayswx

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 04:30:48 PM »
There is little point to having levels you aren't supposed to play at. You might as well have separate rules for low level creatures if players aren't supposed to be.

That just seems needlessly complicated to me. If you already have one mechanism for scaling power, why not just use it everywhere?

DragoonWraith

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Re: Level 0
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 05:22:21 PM »
The dev team's opinion, as far as I am aware, is that there is no reason for such rules. Such creatures should not be used in combat.

Yoder's suggestion provides a useful framework for considering the background of characters before the campaign, or for a non-combat intro session. For basically everything else -- including weaker enemies -- mooks should be used. No "level 0" character should ever see real combat.
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