Author Topic: Track: Doctor  (Read 4575 times)

Sanctaphrax

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Track: Doctor
« on: September 22, 2012, 01:21:18 AM »
In my opinion, the best thing about Legend is its Medicine skill. So I figured I'd build my first track around that skill.



You need to be trained in Medicine to take this track.

1st Circle - First Aid (EX): You get a bonus to all Medicine checks equal to the number of circles that you have in this track. In addition, you may heal the wounds of another character within [Close] range as a standard action. Characters targeted with this ability recover (character level +1)d4 + your Intelligence modifier hit points.

2nd Circle - Multidisciplinary Expertise (EX): You gain the All Sorts Of Doctors feat. If you already have it, you may gain any Medicine skill feat instead.

3rd Circle - Vivisection (EX): As a swift action, you may make a Medicine check against an opponent (the DC is 10 + 1/2 opponent's level + opponent's Constitution modifier). A successful check allows you to strike more precisely against that opponent for the next [Round]. Any successful attack that you make against that opponent during that time inflicts 1d8 additional [Precision] damage for each Circle you have from this Track. If you have the Anatomical Targeteer Feat, then a single swift action and skill check suffices to activate both it and this ability.

4th Circle - Self-Medication (EX): You may target yourself freely with First Aid and all applications of Medicine. You gain [Fast healing] equal to your Intelligence modifier.

5th Circle - Panacea (EX): You may take a move action to remove the [Bleeding], [Stunned], or [Sickened] conditions from an ally within [Close] Range. You may take a standard action to remove the [Dazed], [Battered], or [Nauseated] conditions from an ally within [Close] range. You may take a swift, move, and standard action to remove the [Paralyzed] or [Petrified] conditions or two points of damage to any one ability from an ally within [Close] Range.

6th Circle - Malpractice (EX): Once per [Encounter], you may force an opponent to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Intelligence modifier) after striking them for extra damage with Vivisection. If they fail, they are either [Blinded], [Battered], or [Entangled] until the end of the [Encounter] (your choice).

7th Circle - A Cure For Death (EX): You may perform an attempt to raise the dead with Medicine as a standard action if your target died during the [Encounter]. This increases the difficulty of the attempt to raise the dead by 10. When using this ability repeatedly against the same target, increase the DC of the Medicine check by a further 10 for each time they've been resurrected during the [Scene]. Characters revived this way return with a number of hit points equal to their level.



Balance here is rather rough. So please, don't hold back on the criticism.

Narsis

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 01:52:26 AM »
everything i say could be totally off base but this is what i'm getting:

first off I believe the standard is to avoid granting feats from circles.  so perhaps find something else for circle 2?

secondly 4th circle seems kinda weak.  the first ability, letting first aid work on yourself, is something that should be included with the 1st circle already.  the second ability, medicine checks on yourself, can already be done with the skill IIRC.  the third ability, fast healing, is kinda low.

third, i'm not exactly sure how powerful vivisection is, but Assassin only gets 1d6 per circle and has a stricter limit placed on it.  maybe drop it to just 1d6.

fourth, 5th circle seems kinda weak.  the cure line of spells can already pretty easily remove conditions, and Fortune's Friend's 4th circle is more powerful then this from a personal perspective.  i'd suggest decreasing the action cost(s).

fifth, 6th circle would be ok if it could be used more often.

sixth, 7th circle's kinda interesting.  character level in HP might be a tad low but otherwise i think it's ok.


overall i get the impression that it's on the weak side.
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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 02:10:30 AM »
First, I like the idea of tracks that revolve around a skill. there are already several in legend, and I'd like to see the full set.

I'm not sure about first aid. you are getting a weaker version of incantation, and a scaling skill boost. I don't like the scaling skill boost. Skills don't need scaling bonuses. A flat bonus works just fine. That makes it significant when you get it, and puts you ahead of the curve.
The medicine skills is kinda odd, now that I think about it. Its healing is really pathetic compared to most sources(2hp/level in 8 hours, compared to force of will's level+KOM area heal as a swift) , and its advantage is that it is a very low investment compared to a track. With doctor, you have the track investment. first aid does put you at the "I heal everyone to full between encounters" baseline, but it also makes your core skill unneeded for the obvious use. identifying humanoids and undead is quite useful, removing harmful conditions can be handy in lieu of magic, and the DC 30 revive dead creature is the earliest form of resurrection.
So, practically speaking, a bonus to medicine is mainly a bonus to identification, and makes the resurrection a bit easier(which has  a limited window of usefulness).

for second circle, if you are going to include a homebrew feat, you should link it. However, you should generally avoid bonus feats as track abilities.

Vivisection seems decently balanced.

4th circle is redundant. Nothing stops you from target yourself with first aid and medicine in the first place.

Panacea is useful, but oddly balanced. [Battered] and [Dazed] are nowhere near the same level of severity of condition, yet they both have the standard action cost, while [Stunned] is more severe, but has the move action cost.

malpractice seems kinda weak for a 6th circle. For instance, 5th circle reign of arrows can auto-[batter] people, and this has a save. [battered], [blinded], and [entangled] are really not equivalent level conditions to place side by side like that.

7th circle. DC 40 to raise an ally. if you have the standard 20 ranks and 9 kom, you need an 11 to do it. With the +7 from this track, it is easy. They come back really weak though, and will probably get blown over with a stiff breeze. The second check is going to be hard to make, even with your bonuses, and a third check is just impossible. So, its worth about 1 1/2 resserections for each ally. assuming a decently large party of 6 adventurers, thats 5 allies, for about 8 resurrections. a shaman can use 5 resurrections per scene if they use all their 7th circle spells on it, which bring you up more, and are guaranteed to work. They can also that same spell to cast  many different spells, and have 2 other spells they can use, so they have plenty to do when allies are not dying.

Overall, this is a weak healing track that doesn't do much interesting, except for vivisection which only occurs when you aren't healing things.
In contrast:
Incantation can can harm as well as heal, giving it direct combat abilities, allows you to channel spells, making both the buffing and attacking varied and interesting, heals everyone around them, hold allies past the point of death, target mutliple creatures with their incantation, and get immediate action heals.
Shaman spellcasting can give you much more powerful heals, which can eventually heal the entire party, remove status conditions, and/or restore you to full health, all while providing a wealth of options for buffs, debuffs, and attacks
force of will gives move action area heals, and also lets you give all allies extra attacks, block damage, and meshes these various abilities
virtue gives you high return, long duration healing sources as a swift action, builds up temporary hp, removes conditions, and eventually revives allies.

Basically, healing either
A. does interesting things alongside the healing
and/or
B. takes minor actions, leaving you free to do whatever else.

This fails to meet either criteria, and isn't even that good at healing.
Also, if you are going to make a track based on healing, it needs something to distinguish itself mechanically. spellcasting has spells, incantation has imbuing, force of will has stitch in time, virtue is activated fonts. This has healing... and a mutually exclusive damage boost.

third, i'm not exactly sure how powerful vivisection is, but Assassin only gets 1d6 per circle and has a stricter limit placed on it.  maybe drop it to just 1d6.
it does requrie both a skill check and a swift action.
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Sanctaphrax

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 05:55:59 PM »
Thanks for the comments, guys.

Kinda glad to hear it's on the weak side, because I was erring on the side of less power. Should be easy to buff.

It's not supposed to be just a healing track, though. It's supposed to have a mix of healing and stabbing and skill stuff.

Point by point:

1. I can make the skill bonus flat, no problem. And I think I'll kick the healing up to d6s. And I'll let you target yourself.

2. Didn't know that bonus feats were frowned upon. So, something else. Maybe some kind of Diagnosis ability...are hp totals and conditions public knowledge? Because being able to see everyone's state of health might be cool. If anybody has another suggestion I'd be glad to hear it.

3. It's more damage than some other abilities, but it's also more hassle. I think this one's about right.

4. This one's all about the fast healing. The self-medicine stuff is just there to make the fast healing make sense. Consensus seems to be that the healing is too low, so how about 2 points per circle?

5. In retrospect, I overestimated [Battered]. Especially since First Aid, being (EX), is not [Healing] and so bypasses it. [Stunned] is where it is because it usually ends after one round anyway. I think I'll make this one into a First Aid enhancer, so that healing damage also removes conditions or ability damage. The question is, how many conditions should be removed with one use? And which conditions should be valid targets? And should this turn First Aid into a move action?

6. I'll give this more uses and let it inflict a greater variety of bad stuff. I'm thinking I might let it be used infinitely by setting aside Vivisection damage.

7. I'll reduce the DC slightly to account for the reduced track bonus. And I'll make people come back with three times as much health.

Does that sound like a plan?

Narsis

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 06:12:48 PM »
Thanks for the comments, guys.

Kinda glad to hear it's on the weak side, because I was erring on the side of less power. Should be easy to buff.

It's not supposed to be just a healing track, though. It's supposed to have a mix of healing and stabbing and skill stuff.

Point by point:

1. I can make the skill bonus flat, no problem. And I think I'll kick the healing up to d6s. And I'll let you target yourself.

2. Didn't know that bonus feats were frowned upon. So, something else. Maybe some kind of Diagnosis ability...are hp totals and conditions public knowledge? Because being able to see everyone's state of health might be cool. If anybody has another suggestion I'd be glad to hear it.

3. It's more damage than some other abilities, but it's also more hassle. I think this one's about right.

4. This one's all about the fast healing. The self-medicine stuff is just there to make the fast healing make sense. Consensus seems to be that the healing is too low, so how about 2 points per circle?

5. In retrospect, I overestimated [Battered]. Especially since First Aid, being (EX), is not [Healing] and so bypasses it. [Stunned] is where it is because it usually ends after one round anyway. I think I'll make this one into a First Aid enhancer, so that healing damage also removes conditions or ability damage. The question is, how many conditions should be removed with one use? And which conditions should be valid targets? And should this turn First Aid into a move action?

6. I'll give this more uses and let it inflict a greater variety of bad stuff. I'm thinking I might let it be used infinitely by setting aside Vivisection damage.

7. I'll reduce the DC slightly to account for the reduced track bonus. And I'll make people come back with three times as much health.

Does that sound like a plan?

definitely sounds like a good plan.

2. As long as the PCs can see each other I believe those things are public knowledge.  The Status spell lets you monitor allies that you are separated from.  So maybe a Status SLA?  Not sure exactly on how many times it should be able to be used though.

4. 2 points per circle is definitely better.

5. Definitely make it a First Aid Enhancer.  I'd suggest starting with any 2 conditions and seeing how everything balances out.  I also support turning First Aid into a move action.  Maybe do that at an earlier circle though?

6. Another thing you could consider is allowing Vivisection to trigger First Aid.  Like if you deal damage from Vivisection you can trigger First Aid as a swift or something. 
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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 02:51:23 AM »
You could also do Fast Healing = KDM, which there is definitely precedent for.
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Mystify

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 03:19:58 AM »
by 4th circle, the fast healing should probably be level.
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Sanctaphrax

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2012, 07:43:26 PM »
Level? Really?

Well, I'll trust your judgement.

I wonder if it would be appropriate to make First Aid [Melee] range. I don't want to make it weak, but it would make sense.

Anyway, I decided to switch Circles 2 and 3 because improving First Aid right after getting it would be a bit weird.

No idea how strong the new Malpractice is. Might suck, might rock.

Version two:

You need to be trained in Medicine to take this track.

1st Circle - First Aid (EX): You get a +4 bonus to all Medicine checks. In addition, you may heal the wounds of an ally within [Close] range as a standard action. Characters targeted with this ability recover (character level +1)d6 + your Intelligence modifier hit points. In addition, they immediately lose the [Bleeding] condition if they have it.

2nd Circle - Vivisection (EX): As a swift action, you may make a Medicine check against an opponent (the DC is 10 + 1/2 opponent's level + opponent's Constitution modifier). A successful check allows you to strike more precisely against that opponent for the next [Round]. Any successful attack that you make against that opponent during that time inflicts 1d8 additional [Precision] damage for each Circle you have from this Track. If you have the Anatomical Targeteer Feat, then a single swift action and skill check suffices to activate both it and this ability.

3rd Circle - Invigoration (EX): You may use First Aid as a move action. Characters targeted by your First Aid ability recover one point of ability score damage.

4th Circle - Self-Medication (EX): You may target yourself freely with all applications of Medicine. You gain [Fast healing] equal to your level.

5th Circle - Panacea (EX): Whenever you use First Aid, you may remove any two conditions from your target. In addition, your First Aid ability restores all ability score damage.

6th Circle - Malpractice (EX): Once per [Round], when you make an attack that benefits from Vivisection, you may set aside some of your extra damage dice from Vivisection to inflict one condition on your target. The Conditions that you may inflict, and their costs and duration, are as follows:

1 die: [Bleeding] for three [Rounds].
2 dice: [Battered] for the [Encounter].
3 dice: [Prone] until they stand up.
4 dice: [Sickened] for the [Encounter].
5 dice: [Entangled] for the [Encounter].
6 dice: [Blinded] for the [Encounter].
7 dice: [Stunned] for the [Round].

Your target may negate this effect with a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Intelligence modifier).

7th Circle - A Cure For Death (EX): You may perform an attempt to raise the dead with Medicine as a standard action if your target died during the [Encounter]. This increases the difficulty of the attempt to raise the dead by 7. When using this ability repeatedly against the same target, increase the DC of the Medicine check by a further 7 for each time they've been resurrected during the [Scene]. Characters revived this way return with a number of hit points equal to three times their level.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 05:38:14 AM by Sanctaphrax »

Kitsune_Kinomi

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2012, 09:12:46 PM »
Every thing looks good to me, what ever that may or may not mean xP
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Mystify

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2012, 09:38:45 PM »
I see some issues with malpractice.
First, some clarification. Can you trade more dice for multiple effects? For instance, if I trade 3 dice,is my attack inflicting battered and bleeding?
Second, I would add in a 1/round  limit. forcing a fortitude save on every attack is a bit much, even if the effects of each one are minor. its just cumbersome. Esp. since you could be making multiple saves against the same effect. Esp. since that effect could be stunned.

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Sanctaphrax

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 05:37:26 AM »
@Kitsune_Kinomi: Thank you.

@Mystify: No and good idea. Editing.

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 12:34:05 AM »
4th Circle - Self-Medication (EX): You may target yourself freely with all applications of Medicine. You gain [Fast healing] equal to your level.


All applications of Medicine, freely? Disregarding death and removal thereof, of course, yea?
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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 11:00:45 AM »
May I suggest that they get the ability to use a Medicine check to heal someone (or to remove conditions) as an attack action at some point?

Just because I want to combine this with the I Am Ten Ninjas and Swashbuckler tracks to get a pretty, pretty "I run through crowds and fix them up! Because I AM DOCTOR!" vibe goin'

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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 04:59:41 PM »
Conceptually, I think you have a real problem if you're splitting the track between things that buff attacks and things based on a specific spammable standard action ability. It really narrows the number of builds that can make any real use of this track, since there are very few ways to get attacks while spending a standard action to heal things. You might consider making First Aid generally weaker and allowing it to be activated as a move action.

There are a few other balance issues:

1st Circle - Should probably reduce the Medicine bonus to +3.

2nd Circle - The DC for Vivisection is wrong. Should be 10 + opponent level + Con mod.

3rd Circle - Don't make plans that depend on ability damage as a game mechanic, you'll be disappointed very soon.

5th Circle - Same as 3rd.

6th and 7th circles are basically fine.
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Re: Track: Doctor
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2012, 05:24:09 PM »
That is ehat I was trying to get at with my earlier comments. You either need to do something cool with standard action heals, such as channeling spells through it, or have heals be lesser actions so you can still does things. Creating action conflicts within the same track is particuarly problematic, as it becomeso really hard to utilize both sets of abilities effectively
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