Author Topic: Some Grappling Feats  (Read 2410 times)

Sanctaphrax

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Some Grappling Feats
« on: October 21, 2012, 01:31:07 AM »
I think Legend's grappling rules look interesting, and they deserve some feat support.

So I'm writing some grappling feats.

Unfortunately, the lack of grappling abilities in the current rules means that these have no balance point. I just picked numbers at random.

Wrestler [Combat]
Your grasp is rather difficult to escape.
Benefit: Increase the DC of any save against being [Grappled] or [Pinned] by you by 2.

Fling [Combat]
You throw people around in combat. It's pretty cool.
Benefit: As a move or standard action, you may make an attack against an opponent that you have [Grappled]. The attack inflicts normal damage, knocks its target [Prone] if it hits, and moves the target to an unoccupied point of your choice within your [Melee] range if it hits. Whether it hits or misses, its target is no longer [Grappled].

Strangler [Combat]
When you get your hands around somebody's neck, they're dead. Unless, of course, you're feeling nice.
Benefit: Your Choke actions inflict additional damage equal to your character level.

Human Bowling [Combat]
Even an enemy can be a useful weapon.
Prerequisites: You need the Fling feat to take this one.
Benefit: Whenever you make a successful attack with the Fling feat, you may attempt to place your target in an occupied space. When you do so, roll another attack roll against the occupant of the space; if you hit the occupant takes damage equal to the damage inflicted to the target you threw, and is knocked [Prone] into an adjacent space of their choice. If you miss, place the thrown character into an adjacent space of your choice instead.

Multi-Grab [Combat]
You can choke four people out at once. I have no idea how.
Benefit: You may perform as many attacks as your Base Attack Bonus permits when you attempt to grapple. Each attack must target a different character, and you must be adjacent to each [Grappled] character when you're done attacking. You may Pin or Choke every character that you [Grappled] this way with a single action.

In retrospect, some of these are too boring and too numbers-y. Maybe they'd be better as track abilities.

Mystify

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 10:29:42 AM »
The general response to "We should have grapple abilities" is "That is too specific. They are combat manuevers, so being good at grapple should just be part of being good at combat manuevers"
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Yoder

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2012, 12:41:05 PM »
I like Fling and Human Bowling quite a bit!

@Mystify: There are things that significantly alter how charge and bull rush can be effectively utilized, so these aren't out of place.
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Don Jentleman

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2012, 01:15:16 PM »
The general response to "We should have grapple abilities" is "That is too specific. They are combat manuevers, so being good at grapple should just be part of being good at combat manuevers"

Well, that's somewhat countered by 3-Body Collision and Ruinous Charge, 2 feats from the bonus feats pages that specifically focus on bull rush, as well as Way of the Gun for trip (as in ranged trip attack).

As for the actual feats, I'm loving Fling and Human Bowling, if only for the hilarity of it. Wrestler is out-done by Martial Magister because Martial Magister gives +2 to 3 combat maneuvers, as well as an increase to the DCs of one track and a physical skill (or you can forgo the DC increase to + all of the combat maneuvers).  Strangler and Multi-grab sounds like they should be in an ability track, rather than be feats. Multi-grab should probably have a minus to the roll for every extra opponent you try to grapple, just so that it doesn't get too insane.  Keeping your enemies all on one place makes it way to easy for that group to be hit by any area attack.

Edit: The Whirling Property for magic items can also qualify for enhancing combat maneuvers, as it allows you to trip after making a charge (among other things).  The only combat maneuver that doesn't seem to get any love is disarm, but I can sort of see why that is.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 01:19:50 PM by Don Jentleman »

Mystify

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2012, 01:26:41 PM »
You are right, I was thinking of grapple-based tracks. The same reasoning doesn't apply to a feat.

For fling, I'd consider that you can already trip people you are grappling. This doesn't make it completely redundant, but I'd keep it in mind.

I don't really like strangler. By the time you have a pin, you are already at a huge advantage, and a further bonus probably isn't that helpful. I don't know, choking is kinda a highly circumstantial thing, and that bonus is kinda bland for that.

I don't really like multigrab. I'm not really allowed to elaborate on why.
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Sanctaphrax

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 04:11:35 PM »
Okay, looks like the verdict is:

Wrestler is pointless.
Fling and Human Bowling are pretty good.
Strangler is not terrible, but dull.
Multi-Grab is iffy.

PS: I think I'm going to write an "all about combat maneuvers" track. For people who want to trip and grab and disarm and generally mess with people. Maybe focus on the "soft" maneuvers, or maybe go all-in with Power Attack and Charge and everything. I'll have to check to make sure it hasn't already been done.

amechra

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2012, 05:00:35 PM »
Well, there is Knight, but it's more focused on Charging...

Yoder

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2012, 10:53:03 AM »
I believe an upcoming track is going to have a significant focus on tripping and disarming.
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Don Jentleman

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 10:54:04 AM »
Well, there is Knight, but it's more focused on Charging...

Knight also allows for using combat maneuvers in place of AoO's, and gives precision damage for using combat maneuvers.  There are a couple of other tracks that enhance charges as well.

Either way, making a combat maneuver track might be redundant. Maybe a track that focuses on holding down and moving one enemy might be better, kinda like the Avenger class from 4e.

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Re: Some Grappling Feats
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 08:32:23 PM »
A combat maneuver track is indeed rather redundant. Not allowed to say why.
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