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Legend System Discussion => Legend Homebrew => The Abandoned Laboratory => Topic started by: Mystify on July 09, 2015, 02:21:45 PM

Title: New weapon properties
Post by: Mystify on July 09, 2015, 02:21:45 PM
new weapon properties (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xAWOFpas7CbtE7HCPPBAw7JOvc_umxsUyh-8ks-eXZ4/edit)
I put out a call for the devs to contribute new ideas for weapon properties, with the idea that we would add a small number (fewer than 10) to the game via the Monster Guide that would also help characterize monsters coming in. Few ideas were fleshed out past the concept and discard stage; those that got anywhere are listed here.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Regitnui on July 09, 2015, 02:29:35 PM
These seem safe to go it as is, actually. I'm not that skilled though. Any other comments?
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Mystify on July 09, 2015, 02:35:40 PM
well, flanking is incomplete still. Rending makes me squirm, but I'm not sure there is actually anything wrong with it.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Regitnui on July 09, 2015, 02:51:21 PM
[Flanking] can take a tip from Legend's direct ancestor; in 3.5 flanking gave +2 to attack rolls. [Flanking] could do something similar.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Tim4488 on July 09, 2015, 07:11:43 PM
[Flanking]: +1 attack roll if you and at least one ally are both within your target's [Melee] range? It would be powerful but I'm not sure more powerful than [Brutal]

[Swarm]: 1/2 KOM damage? I feel like KOM would be too good for a weapon property, but I could be wrong. Maybe take it twice for KOM?
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Mystify on July 09, 2015, 09:46:22 PM
brutal is 1/3 level damage. an attack bonus is a 1/20 chance to hit. So if damage/20 = 1/3*level, they match. that would be 6 2/3 * level damage. Which is a fair bit. I guess that works out.

[swarming] is on a miss. the problem with KOM is that it will scale poorly with level, especially 1/2 KOM. 1/2 level would be more reasonable.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: chaos_redefined on July 09, 2015, 10:31:50 PM
Ambush should scale better.  Point blank is 1d4 every 7 levels.  Which is a tad slower than brutal, but is useful for weapons with a fourth property ([Brutal 3][Point-blank])  This is more situational.

Flanking, I think, should be fine as a circumstantial +1.  Masterwork costs the same as Sophisticated.
Something like "You gain a +1 bonus to hit when the enemy has an ally within it's melee range."

Hooked...  might work better as a combat maneuver.  I dunno if it needs a property to allow it, or make Hooked similar to Trapping.

Impeding is fine.  Talked with a friend, he thought of it on ranged attackers (stop them from running away/approaching the frail archer), while I had thought of it on tanks (stop them from approaching your allies), so it's versatile as well.

Rending is the first property that makes me consider multiple natural attacks.  I'm gonna have to think on this one some more.  One problem is that this makes a crit-fisher want natural attack tracks, and Large and In Charge is the track that gives the most of those...

Sundering: Should we allow [Sundering 2] to get two stacks of the penalty, and [Sundering 3] to get three?

Swarm: Level + KOM?

Trapping: Should be good

Weakening: Seems really situational, but other than that...  -2 flat, or -1 stacking to -3 should be fine.

Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Mystify on July 09, 2015, 10:41:50 PM
I don't think rending needs multiple weapons, just multiple hits with your weapon. Or another weapon that also has rending, whichever.

-3 attack penalty is no longer mino; keep sundering at 1

level+KOM on a miss is too good. a seeking weapon does that on a hit, and that is an enchantment

Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: afroakuma on July 09, 2015, 10:42:42 PM
I don't think rending needs multiple weapons

Was specifically intended to reward using multiple weapons.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Tim4488 on July 09, 2015, 11:20:40 PM
Swarm at Level + KOM feels like a Circle rather than a Weapon Property. 1/2 level feels about right.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Mystify on July 09, 2015, 11:42:19 PM
I don't think rending needs multiple weapons

Was specifically intended to reward using multiple weapons.
ah, I see. That does make the bonus more reasonable.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: chaos_redefined on July 10, 2015, 07:53:22 AM
1/2 level always has the awkward feeling of not changing for the first couple of levels (until level 4), assuming you put the min 1 clause in.  If you don't, then it's even more awkward, as it's useless at level 1.  What about half level or half KOM, whichever is higher?

As far as rending is concerned...  my problem with it's current version is that it wants to go on a crit-fisher, who you usually imagine as someone smaller, preferably dex-based.  But it also means you want at least two natural weapons which you can pick the properties of.  So, either Large and in Charge, or Discipline of the Serpent + Battleforged.  That's pretty specific, and neither of those really give the "dex-based crit-fisher" style.

What about:

If you hit an enemy with three or more different weapons in the same turn, and each of those weapons has the [Rending] property, the enemy takes additional damage equal to ... .

I'm tempted to put level there, but hitting with three different attacks should probably have more of a reward than what brutal on each of those weapons would have.  Additionally, you're unlikely to get an item bonus to all 3 attacks.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Mystify on July 10, 2015, 08:32:37 AM
half KOM barely shifts at all over the course of the entire system. if I start off wit ha KOM of 6, which isn't unusual, then 1/2 KOM is 3. but the KOM will also max out at 9, and 1/2 KOM is 4. So over 20 levels, 1/2 KOM only shifts by 1. it will take 6-10 levels for 1/2 level to overcome 1/2 KOM, so that has an even longer span of not changing.

You are making all sorts of unfounded assumptions about crit-fishers. Abolsutely nothing in the system points to them being small or dex based. They actually lean towards being paladins or poets with the current mechanics.
Serpent does get a ton of mileage out of it, as /any/ weapon they have, natural or not, can be rending.
switching between manufactured weapons can also work for rending. rend, quickdraw, rend, quickdraw, rend. Getting natural weapons only saves you a quickdraw property, so taking tracks or feats for it is not necessarily the best investment.

Its actually not that great for most crit fishers, as you will want the vorpal property on your weapon, and getting that on 3 different weapons would take up ALL your relics+artifacts. Not really the best investment. A vorpal relic would give you the +3 without all of the shenanigans.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: chaos_redefined on July 10, 2015, 09:24:42 PM
Sorry, should have also specified this.  At levels 1, 2 and 3, level/2 deals 1 damage on a miss.  That's almost forgettable.  It doesn't increase until level 4.  It just feels too small at the early levels.  max(KOM, level)/2 deals 2 damage at level 1, 3 damage at level 2, if you start with a 16, a +2 racial bonus, +2 item bonus, and the first stat you improve upon level up.  That is somewhat better.  It stalls out for a bit there, until level 8.  All it's doing is pushing some of the increases earlier on, so that it actually kinda matters at level 1.  The only other lvl/2 mechanic in the game that I can think of is the initiative boost, and I have the problem that it matters in only 5% of fights until level 4.

Alternatively, (lvl + KOM)/2 scales from 3 through to 15.  It matters at the early levels, and it scales at the higher levels.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: Mystify on July 10, 2015, 09:39:37 PM
brutal only deals 1 damage at level 1. Weapon properties are not powerhouses.
Title: Re: New weapon properties
Post by: chaos_redefined on July 10, 2015, 11:30:16 PM
True.  Level/2 should be fine.