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Legend System Discussion => Legend Homebrew => Topic started by: Koeh on October 11, 2017, 11:58:19 AM

Title: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on October 11, 2017, 11:58:19 AM
 "This is clearly the work of someone with scissors, glue and too much free time!"

I'm not quite done with this system yet.  I only wish I had been active when the system was newer and had more players.  I made a collection of several homebrew and Abandoned Laboratory, class, tracks, options etc.  I attempted to edit it in the style of the original Legend book.  I still want to add more to it, specifically Descriptions to all tracks and classes like in the original book; a Sorcerer base Class; perhaps some more items. 

If your material is contained in here and you want me to remove it, I will be happy to.  If you want material added from your own home brew, I will also be happy to.    Credits to all contributions are on the final page. 

1/13/18 Updated PDF version -

Updated google docs version -

I attempted to upload as doc format, but all the editing screwed up.  I shall attempt to get that working in the near future. 

Please comment edit or use at your leisure.  Or if I need to fix anything please comment here. 
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on October 13, 2017, 04:03:43 PM
Google docs version format really screwed up, so I just removed all images and that seemed to help.  but page numbers may be off. 

(see above)

Comments are enabled.   
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Djtooth on October 29, 2017, 03:04:04 AM
This is really great. Wish this system was more active for people to see your fantastic work.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on November 03, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
hey, I'm glad at least 1 person beyond my own group got to see it.  That makes it worth it, so thanks!

Between DMing 2 different games I haven't had much time to add more.  Still working on the Sorcerer Base class and I wanted to use your Blood mage homebrew as the slow or medium track.  But the whole class still needs a lot of work.  What i have so far:


Sorcerer.  8 HP / Level, 6 skills, good will and fort Saves. 
Poor BAB
KOM – Cha  KDM – Con

Fast track :  Power
(like shaman's path, but restricted to tracks that grant spell like or super natural abilities. 

Slow : Blood
Blood Mage Home brew (,1027.msg19189.html#msg19189 ), needs some flavor changes.  Thread said some balance on auras to look at.  )

Medium : Magic.  (too many passive benefits?  Is arcane bolt too unwieldy for one that needs a standard action spell, locks them out of the rest of the track effectively?  Maybe just make it part of the base?) 

1st Circle – Arcana SU:  You create an Invisible but tangible extension of your arcane might, this is your Arcana.  You start each encounter with your Arcana uncharged.  If your Arcana is not charged, when an ally in your [Close] range, including yourself, uses a spell-like or supernatural ability that is not Arcana, your Arcana becomes charged.  While your Arcana is Charged, once per [Round] as an immediate action you may switch the Arcana’s form which renders the Arcana uncharged.  Arcana may only be in one form at a time.  Arcana may take the following two forms:
•   Arcane Bolt – You gain the ability to throw a bolt of pure arcane energy as a standard action once per [Round] or replacing a single attack in an attack action.  This deals 1d4 [Force] damage per level to a single target in [Medium] range.  When you activate Arcane Bolt by sacrificing an attack in an attack action (but not when you activate it as any other action), you may sacrifice additional attacks, up to a maximum of 1 per 5 levels you possess, to increase damage dealt through that activation of Arcane Bolt by your Key Offensive Modifier.
•   Interposing Disk – You become [Covered] 

2nd circle - Arcane Conduit SU:  You gain an item bonus to attack rolls with spell-like and supernatural abilities equal to the even number of circles you have in this track.  Additionally, choose 1 weapon property, your spell-like and supernatural abilities are always considered to be altered by that property, as though you are wielding an [Arcane] weapon with that property.  This stacks with any other weapons you already wield normally.  At 4th and 6th Circle you may choose 1 additional weapon property.  This choice is permanent.

3rd Circle – Expeditious Retreat SU: Once per round whenever Arcana becomes charged, you may choose to [Teleport] up to 15 feet in any direction.  In addition your Arcana may take the following form:
•   Floating Disk: You gain the Flight movement mode.   

4th Circle – Arcane Shield SU: Your Arcana may take the following form: 
•   Arcane Aegis: You gain [Resistance] to [Magic] and [Energy] Damage.

5th Circle – Arcane Surge SU: You may have 2 Arcana active at once, each Arcana must have different forms, but you may change both with a single immediate action.   

6th Circle – Arcane Might SU:  Your Arcana may take the following new form: 
•   Focusing Lens: You are considered to be 1 level higher (max 21) for purpose of damage, range, DC and access to higher level effects when using any spell-like and Supernatural abilities. 

7th Circle - Spell Siphon SLA: Twice per [Scene] as a Standard action you may [Dispel] any effect of 7th circle or lower from 1 target in your [Medium] range and apply it to yourself. 

Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Iceberg256 on November 08, 2017, 03:22:05 PM
This is fantastic.  I'm glad to see someone at least attempting to collate the various extra material that was developed for this system.  I felt there was plenty of potential for this game and am sad to see it abandoned.  I really don't have much to add other than to share my thanks for doing this work and reinvigorating some of my interest Legend.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: MaesterofMadness on November 21, 2017, 04:15:20 AM
Indeed, for those of us that still play the game this is awesome! I hope we can bring people to the site, perhaps start off a Legend 2.0 thing someday. Regardless this is a step in the right direction, whatever direction that takes. Good job.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on November 22, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
Thank you all so much for the encouragement!  It really makes this worth it, besides the fact I still find this stuff fun. 

PDF version updated to include Sorcerer Base Class, Blood mage track Changed Significantly (basically switched it for DJTooth's, and put the original by Koru in the Sorcerer Base.)  Added Troubadour Track.  Some minor grammar and rule clarification edits. 

Hope to get the Google docs version updated after this holiday weekend so comments can be made.   
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on November 27, 2017, 02:57:49 PM
Updated Google docs version to reflect recent changes and allowed for comments to be made (google made so many editing errors!!!  Argh!!  )

I think I'm pretty much done with the meat of the updates.  I still need to add flavor and writes up for most of the tracks.  That's a low end priority, but something I want to get done. 

I had a request from one in my group to make a "Pacifist" style track... which I'm unsure where to go with at the moment.  Leaning toward giving options for the "Precise Strike" Combat maneuver.  I also had a desire to do an Arcane archer style track as well, in my game I just allowed a Sage to make his Grim Heritor a bow, but would like something perhaps unique for that.  Going to think on this one.  Those 2 will probably just be personal Homebrew, nothing I'd want to add to the book unless someone requests it. 

I was really lacking any ideas for items, most of the design space has been used for those in 1.1 I felt.  Also my group doesn't use the skill games, so I have no ideas on that either.  So unless you guys have suggestions I'm content leaving those things as they are. 

But for those checking in on this, enjoy!  All of the core mechanical stuff is basically done, so it should be ready for use at your tables if you wish.  I'd love comments or any suggestions as well, if there anything you want added to the book, a new race, monster track, item or anything I'll be happy to come back and add it in. 
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on December 05, 2017, 12:07:03 PM
New unexpected update to PDF. 

Added new races : Kobolds, Goblins and Lizard folk.  As well added and expanded on the "Transformative Races" that was on the original website, thought it would be good design space for adding Sub-races, such as Drow. 
Added Tables for races and racial tracks

Decided against pacifist and arcane archer ideas.  Not really going where I'd want them to. 

Still nagging me that I don't have any items in the book.  So I'll keep thinking on that, any ideas would be greatly appreciated! 

Google docs version might take a while to update, the editing was very difficult for the races page with all the images and tables.   Since I don't think I mentioned it before, the PDF version is significantly easier to edit and modify, so it most likely will be the most up to date version of the book for anyone looking. 

Thanks for your continued support!
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on December 18, 2017, 01:55:44 PM
Happy Non-Specific Winter Holiday to all!  My present to you is a final version and completed Players Handbook 2!  It contains brand new items, Flavor text for each class and track, edits to pictures and Balance/Flavor changes for the Sorcerer Class.

PDF version -

Google docs for comments -

I sent a message to one of the original creators about this final (barring any major problems brought to my attention) update.  I hope he'll give it a look. 

If I get encouragement, I think my next job might be a... (Insert Drum Roll...) Monster Manual!  One of the major complaints from new players and DM's that Legend lacks.  That's a big job though... so, don't expect anything out too quickly.  Enjoy the book everyone!
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Tim4488 on December 21, 2017, 02:34:32 PM
Koeh, this looks great. Thanks so much for all of your hard work on this. I want to give it a fine-toothed read later, but one thing I noticed right away - in the Sorcerer's Magic track, I'm a little unclear how Arcana works. Let's say I have my Arcana set to Interposing Disk. Do I receive that bonus all the time, and I need my Arcana to be Charged to switch to Clenched Fist? Or does my Arcana grant no benefit at all until it's Charged, and then I can blow the Charge to switch to Clenched Fist (which then provides no benefit until I'm Charged again)? Right now it's not clear if Arcana has to be Charged to provide those basic benefits.

Also, just out of curiosity, any particular reason you didn't include the other tracks from TimelessError's Fighter class, I think they were Crashing Wave and Flickering Candle?

Really excited to use this content in my games, thanks again for putting it all together.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on December 22, 2017, 12:40:34 PM
Thanks so much!  I always do worry about clearness when writing, hoping what I intended got across.  The intent is for the Arcana to be passive benefit and for you based on its form, only needing the charge to switch forms.  So you may use a charge and immediate action in order to swap it's form and benefit, but while uncharged for example Interposing Disk would grant cover until you swapped its form.  I hope the updated line makes it clear.  The PDF has been updated. 

"Arcana -You create an Invisible but tangible extension of your arcane might, this is your Arcana which grants you and your spells a passive benefit based on its form.  You may change your Arcana’s form and benefit by discharging the magic from it"

The only reason I didn't include those 2 tracks is for conciseness.  6 options for a single track seemed a bit too much for me.  I felt as though I had to include the show fighter in the book, just like everything in the Abandoned Lab.  The Martial styles seemed the best position for it.  4 seemed like a good compromise, so I picked the other 3 that I felt added to most to the game and just had to scrap the other 2.  When I started work on individual tracks I'll admit I did forget about them. 

And I will also fully admit to being totally biased in the "Ghost-faced Killer" inclusion and name change.  One of my 3.5 edition players made that prestige class from Complete Adventurer work so well it has become famous in our group, and the Kingfisher abilities worked so well for it.

I still feel as though 6 options for a single track is too much.  What do you think, I am wrong on that?  Only Paladin and Rogue have a comparable number of choices.  If I did add those 2, perhaps I could do it as separate tracks? 
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Iceberg256 on December 22, 2017, 05:15:26 PM
Some minor thoughts for a few last adjustments.  I think if you're considering divorcing some tracks from the fighter class, my vote would be show fighter, although that's more of a flavor judgement than based on any mechanical reason.  I feel many characters could take advantage of that track from a story standpoint and according to RAW, that would lock characters out of selecting any of the other Martial Style choices.

Also, I would suggest renaming the Soldier track, considering Ranger already has "Professional Soldier".  My suggestion would be "Consummate Warrior", probably also replacing all instances of Soldier in the Circle abilities with Warrior as well.  It does not appear to be any conflicts with those titles.  Only other uses of warrior I could find are the skeleton's "Eternal Warrior" circle ability from the Undead track,  the "Psychic Warrior" school of powers, and Tattooed Warrior track.

On the PDF, it seems that the headers for the Fighter and Psion classes are showing up on the page previous to where they should be, causing a bit of layout issues.

I really appreciate the work done here and glad to see something for Legend completed.  I'm strongly considering getting a game together in the new year.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on December 22, 2017, 06:27:22 PM
Doh!   :-[  :o   PDF fixed.  I even just printed it out for my own use.  Dunno how I missed that. 

You'll have to walk me through the advantage of the show fighter?  I'm not really following on that.  But yeah, if any of the tracks were going to be divorced from it, that would most likely be the one to go since it wasn't originally part of the design by TimelessError. 

Given your and Tim'4488's comments, I'm leaning toward that as a solution.  Giving fighter back the Crashing Wave and Flickering Candle tracks and Show Fighter being it's own thing.  Thinking about it, Psoinics is technically 5 track selections in one.  Gonna make some edits to the master document and see how that plays out. 

As for the name, I'm thinking something that calls out the tactics and thoughtful actions made by the Fighter.  Perhaps "Soldiers Stratagem" , "Tactical Warrior" or "The Art of War" ? 
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on December 22, 2017, 07:22:23 PM
I forgot how well written and edited TimelessError's tracks were.  If you happen to be reading this, you are definitely one of the best Home brewers. 

Thanks to his editing and easy to read abilities, I was able to make the edits very quickly and re-number the pages too.  I'm only uploading this one as PDF for my own sanity, but what's the over-all opinion?  Basically Crashing Wave and Flickering Candle were re-added as martial style tracks, and Show Fighter moved as it's own separate track. 

Major fighter edits PDF  :   

The original PDF is still intact, but if the consensus that the Fighter class is better as it originally was, I will replace the PDF and change the Google docs version.   
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Tim4488 on December 23, 2017, 07:03:10 PM
Thank you for the clarification on Arcana!

You're not wrong about it being a lot of options for a single track, to be fair, but I just really loved everything TE wrote. And I do think that Iceberg has a good point that Show Fighter can synergize with e.g. Shining Sun or Crashing Wave, while I think there are very good reasons to not let people have two of the martial style tracks. And I thought the Ghost-Faced Killer rename worked nicely.

The Art of War seems like a good replacement name for Soldier.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Timeless Error on December 24, 2017, 01:35:39 PM
I forgot how well written and edited TimelessError's tracks were.  If you happen to be reading this, you are definitely one of the best Home brewers. 

Hey, thanks man. I'm happy to see people are still thinking about Legend and finding uses for the stuff I wrote.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Tim4488 on December 24, 2017, 07:15:52 PM
I forgot how well written and edited TimelessError's tracks were.  If you happen to be reading this, you are definitely one of the best Home brewers. 

Hey, thanks man. I'm happy to see people are still thinking about Legend and finding uses for the stuff I wrote.

I regularly use chunks of the Fighter class for NPCs in my Legend games, especially Forger, Shining Sun, and Crashing Wave. Had a PC use Unrelenting Storm a couple years back, and Soldier crops up here and there in my games too.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on December 26, 2017, 08:48:46 PM
Fighter class has been restored to it's former glory.  Once I re-read Crashing Wave, it made a lot more sense to me and am glad to include it.  Flickering Candle was a bit harder, but I changed it's name to Leaping Flame and thought of it as a Final Fantasy style Dragoon, made a lot more sense to me.  Mechanics are unchanged.   

I do feel as if Leap attack is a bit... Clunky?   "Once per [Round], as a move action or part of a move action, directly before making an attack, you can declare which opponent you will be attacking and make an Acrobatics check (DC 10 + your opponent’s level).  You deal bonus [Precision] damage on your next attack equal to the amount by which your Acrobatics check exceeded the DC.  Additionally, you gain a +2 bonus to Acrobatics checks."

If no one else has this concern I'll leave it alone,  but I was thinking making the damage a flat damage value,  perhaps same as Ranger, +3 per 2 levels?   Equal to acrobatics modifier?  1/2 of Acrobatics check?  I'm not sure, maybe concerned over nothing. 

Also thank you so much Tim for your comments and help editing!  Looking at it all myself, so easy to miss those simple things. 

Updated PDF version -

Updated google docs version -

Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Iceberg256 on December 28, 2017, 01:57:13 PM
The formula is a bit cumbersome, but I don't think there's a problem with it mechanically.  Rolling a skill as part of a move action for added effects does seem to be a pretty prevalent part of Legend's skill system.  However, I wouldn't be opposed to something more simple.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on December 29, 2017, 12:06:02 PM
Yeah, the actually Acrobatics check isn't the concern I had,  it was the damage calculation.  Usually when you get precision damage, it's some bonus damage dice or just a flat bonus to damage.  Subtraction from a variable DC based on your own check I think would slow things down at the table.  But I honestly am unsure what to replace it with. 
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Tim4488 on December 29, 2017, 05:30:18 PM
I'm glad the editing helped!

Comparing Leap Attack to Reign of Arrows C1: Dead-Eye, which I do like as a comparison point:

Leap Attack requires you to spend a move/part of a move action, has the potential fail, and does variable damage
Dead-Eye activates when an opponent is [Flat-footed], and does consistent damage

Making an opponent [Flat-footed] will USUALLY involve using Bluff or some other ability, often as a move/part of a move, and that ability will have variable success. However, your allies also have the opportunity to make opponents [Flat-footed] for you, which Leap Attack can't take into account.

Honestly I'd fine with changing it the same damage as Dead-Eye. Trading the ability for allies to set it up for you, for a +2 to your own chance to succeed on the check, seems fair. And I do agree that a flat value feels more elegant.

Some reference values: a 1st level Leap Attacker should have between +5 and +7 to Acrobatics (+1 rank, +3 to +5 Dex, +2 from Leap Attack), vs a DC of 11, avg 4-6 bonus damage (vs Dead-Eye's 3)
6th level Leap Attacker vs. 6th level enemy will have something like +14 to +16 (+6 rank, +4-6 Dex, +2 Adept item, +2 Leap Attack), vs DC 16, that's 8-10 bonus damage on average (vs. Dead-Eye's 9)
10th level Leap Attacker vs. 10th level enemy will be at +19 to +21 (+10 rank, +5-7 Dex, +2 Adept item, +2 Leap Attack) vs DC 20, that's 9-11 bonus damage on average (vs. Dead-Eye's 15)
20th level vs 20th level enemy at +30 to +34 (+20 rank, +6-10 Dex, +2 Adept item, +2 Leap Attack) vs DC 30, that's 10-14 bonus damage on average (vs. Dead-Eye's 30)

So at low levels Leap Attack may have a slight advantage under the current formula, and at high levels Dead-Eye is clearly better, although of course good rolls could result in some very cool things. I also didn't take into account Master Scout for an extra +2 Acrobatics.

So yeah I'd advocate for changing it to Dead-Eye's damage values.
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on January 02, 2018, 12:01:46 PM
Changed Leap attack damage to Dead-eye calculation.  So, 2017 and PHB 2 is completed.  Of course if there's any other edits I need to make, I'll be happy to do them.  But a new year calls for a new project!  See my other thread.  And thank you all for the support on this. 
Title: Re: Players Handbook 2?
Post by: Koeh on January 13, 2018, 04:45:41 PM
PDF version of the phb2 has been updated.  Significant changes to the Druid class.  Added Avian Track.  Bookmarks should work now for if you download the PDF.

Got a bunch of great folks on the Discord that bioa10 set up (Link in Signature).  We're all making more content, editing and reviewing each others work (DaWaaaaghBabal has been a huge help to me on this book.  Big updates to it still in progress).  Also setting up online Legend games and talking about Modules and the Monster manual.  If you're not on yet, come by and say hi!