Rule of Cool Community Forums

General Category => Realms of Adventure => Topic started by: Anaxim on May 17, 2012, 02:55:52 AM

Title: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 17, 2012, 02:55:52 AM
So, this is pretty much a replica of a game I took part in on another forum board.


While in passing near an Earth-like planet, the SS Doodleydoo has a malfunction and ejects 30 of its clones to the planet, still in their PJs. 15 adult males and 15 adult females, with basic elementary school education, are stranded on a planet with no way to be rescued.
They will die without your help.

The Game
You are all somewhat of guiding forces. You are able to teach and impress upon the clones all kinds of things.
Your main goal is to have them survive.
Your main tool is providing them with progress and inventions: how to make weapons, how to collect food, how to refine and so on.
Your other tool are directives: methods on doing things, interacting with their environment and dealing with problems when they first arise.

The Rules
1) Anyone may join and may discuss with relevance to the game.
2a) You may only post a single invention and may not post another before 2 other players have.
2b) Linking to a Wikipedia article does not constitute an invention. You must phrase them yourselves.
2c) Inventions must include instructions and may not assume to use things that aren't decidedly available (i.e. you can't sharpen a wooden stick without cutting tools or methods).
3) You may not assume success or failure on any invention or directive. You are only to instruct. I review what is instructed and provide according reaction.


With that, let's start with the first status report:

Status: It is the beginning of Autumn. We are hungry. We have PJs but they will not last too long.
Technology: None.
Current Events: None.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 17, 2012, 10:44:01 AM
Sounds interesting, lets see if I do this right:
-------------------------------------
Invention: Sharp  rocks
Instructions: Find a rock and some flint(it has a glossy look to it, kinda like glass). Strike the rock against the flint to shear off sections to get sharp edges.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 17, 2012, 11:17:53 AM
Sounds fun, although our gene pool sucks. We're going to need to invent some biodiversity within a few generations...what's our environment like? I assume terrain such as forests, shores and such is accessible within reasonable travel time.

I'm assuming that the PJs will last us until we can get some food and hides, so I am going to propose the invention of Stone Spears: a more or less straight branch, to which the Sharp Rocks are attached by means of vines. With these spears, we can hunt prey for its food and hides (which we could fashion into clothing with a later invention), and defend ourselves from predators.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 17, 2012, 01:21:28 PM
Invention: Hunting

Insert Stone Spear into animal to kill. Collect carcass for raw materials such as meat, animal skins, and other animal products. These should be usable for other endeavors as well as serve to feed yourselves.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: AugustNight on May 17, 2012, 01:31:03 PM
Seek rocks that spark when struck together, send sparks to small amounts of dry thin dead vegetation, spread dry vegetation to small sticks to larger sticks. Attempt to invent fire.

Use fire to have warmth and light.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 17, 2012, 01:38:55 PM
Take the skins from the hunted animals, and make fur clothing.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 17, 2012, 02:40:12 PM
Invention: Geography

Find bearings so as to ascertain surroundings and take stock of accesssible natural resources in our area. What wildlife surrounds us? What landmarks can we use to find our ways around? What water sources can be found nearby, salt or fresh?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Valixes on May 17, 2012, 03:31:47 PM
Once we can understand our surroundings, we can then find places free of the elements - caves, good nooks and crannies to hide in while we sleep. So I invent shelter, areas that we may treat as a base of sorts for our operations, store our food safely, hide from rain, and angered wildlife.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on May 17, 2012, 05:06:06 PM
Using a Stone Spear, spit the meat collected from the carcasses, and roast it over Fire to invent Cooked Meat.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: AugustNight on May 17, 2012, 05:14:14 PM
Invention: Geography

Find bearings so as to ascertain surroundings and take stock of accesssible natural resources in our area. What wildlife surrounds us? What landmarks can we use to find our ways around? What water sources can be found nearby, salt or fresh?

Wait. Geography isn't as easy to intuitively pass on to others as the other tools so far.
We need to build up a language it seems! Something simple with symbols and perhaps eventually words even!
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 17, 2012, 05:21:44 PM
Invention: Geography

Find bearings so as to ascertain surroundings and take stock of accesssible natural resources in our area. What wildlife surrounds us? What landmarks can we use to find our ways around? What water sources can be found nearby, salt or fresh?

Wait. Geography isn't as easy to intuitively pass on to others as the other tools so far.
We need to build up a language it seems! Something simple with symbols and perhaps eventually words even!
If they don't understand language how can they understand our instructions? I don't mean complex geography, I just mean the basics of our surroundings such as mountains, rivers, forests and such as well as basic surrounding fauna. The survivors have basic elementary school education so I think we should assume they understand the language we're speaking unless there's a language barrier I'm unaware of. If we want to expand on the language they do know I think that may be worthwhile.

Invention: Stone tools

Take the sharp rocks and create some other things out of rocks. Make a more pointed triangular head and tie it to a stick to make a stone pick. This should be useful for breaking up large rocks to make other stone things easier. Make a flat head with a wide sharp edge and tie it to a longer stick to make a stone axe. This should be useful for chopping wood, meat, or other things that need large hacking cuts to get apart. Make a similar rock shaped like the head of the stone spear and attach a short handle to create a stone knife. This should be handy for smaller things that need cutting. Be sure to keep the edge on it narrow and sharp to allow for easier cutting.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 17, 2012, 05:25:23 PM
Just noticed the amount of replies. Do not feel that I have forgotten, just not getting Email notifs for some reason.

Will go over all this in approximately 6 and a half hours and give a status report.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 18, 2012, 01:31:23 AM
Since we have quite so much new content (also, pardon the double post.), I would like to address it in order.

Sharp Rocks - passes.
Stone Spears - passes.
Hunting - passes as a concept. Actual hunting is not quite as easy, a better explanation would help.
Fire - that method is not yet available, we lack ferrous metals in order to spark with flint. There are plenty of other methods, though, some easily achievable with the stone tools we have.
Skinning - will pass once we have hunting down.
Geography - passes.
Shelter - passes.
Cooked Meat - see skinning.
Stone Tools - passes.

Also, there is no language barrier. They understand you fine and they are able to perform rudimentary communication among themselves.


Now that we have a proper list of what does and does not pass, a status report:

Status: It is the beginning of Autumn. We are hungry. We have PJs but they will not last too long. We have found shelter and a ready water source, as well as noted that we are in a relatively temperate forest area near a mountain. We have a small number of stone tools, including spears.
Technology: Basic stone tools.
Current Events: The Autumn is slowly starting to set in.

Also: I won't be around till Sunday (some 50 something hours from now. So feel free to pile up inventions.).
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 18, 2012, 01:56:36 AM
Invention: hunting

Sorry, I made it simple as a bit of a joke but I suppose I'll have to go into more detail than that. First pay attention to the current wildlife around us. Look for tracks and signs of disturbance in the surrounding to take note of where animals may have passed through. Near water sources can be a good place to lay in wait or make traps for instance. Since we don't have traps or foraging for the bait for traps invented I'll start with simple hunting techniques. Look in hollows where smaller animal may take shelter. Be aware of your surroundings in order to spot wildlife. Stone Spears if created with the correct heft can be tossed at fleeing wildlife and with enough practice can hit and kill them from a distance. Make sure to keep spears close at hand for more dangerous prey. If you come across something dangerous such as a mountain lion or bear I would suggest 1) be in a group and 2) make yourselves appear as big as possible and make as much noise as possible to scare them off. Alone the noise and appearing big will most likely not work but together you can scare them away. If you're feeling brave you can corner such creatures and kill them from reach with your spears without getting yourselves hurt. Be wary of this though as we do not want any of you to get hurt and it's still a possibility we probably don't want to risk. It would probably be best you stick to smaller game for now. Rabbits, deer, and other such animals are hard to catch on foot, but if stalked properly you can lodge a spear in them and have them down before they know what hit them. All I said about paying attention to where they pass through applies here as this will most likely give you an opportunity to attack from a hiding spot and raise your chances of catching something. Note that  the younger and older animals will be easier to catch as they won't be as quick so if you miss a throw you still have the chance of chasing them down. We may be able to go into detail based on the wildlife we can find, but lets give this a shot for now and see what we catch.

I could easily go into other possible inventions that would aid in our hunting to make it easier or other alternatives for food, but since we have inventions based on this one I thought I'd give a shot at basic hunting techniques to see if this was enough to begin. If this doesn't work I would suggest other inventions such as atlatls, traps, foraging, and animal study to aid this invention's completion or cover our food needs first. Some of those may aid in hunting's completion as well if completed.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 18, 2012, 02:47:11 AM
Using animal fats as a base, we can make paints. Adding charcoal to it can yield a black paint, crushing some flowers into it may yield some basic colors.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 18, 2012, 03:00:39 AM
Hunting is go. The following inventions are now functioning as well:

However, that amount of hunting is yet to provide us with much. We are 1/3 fed and only 15 of the group are out of their PJs.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 18, 2012, 03:39:33 AM
Invention: Atlatl

Take stone axe and cut yourself some slightly larger lumber from branches in the forest. Now take stone knife and begin to carve off the top half of the branch down its length and cut a groove for your stone spear to fit in. Leave a nook at the end of the branch and hollow it out to allow the end of your spear to fit into. Now take this device with spear inserted into the nook and yank on the now carved branch to send your spear flying. It should go much further now which might mean you'll hit those hunting targets from a bit further away. Practice makes perfect so make sure you can get your targets hit so you can feed yourselves better.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 18, 2012, 09:45:35 AM
Spear thrower. Awesome.
We still lack fire. Someone invent it.

Status: Autumn continues setting in. We are cold. We are less hungry. We are all clothed due to increased hunting. We have several stone tools, including stone spears, and spear throwers for the hunters. We are more acquinated with the surrounding area, and have found caves into the mountains.
Technology: Basic stone tools and spear throwers.
Current Events: Several of the men and women have shown promise with the spear thrower and go out on more hunting excursions.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 18, 2012, 01:03:37 PM
Fire.
make a pile of tinder- use dried grass, leaves, and/or bark.
Find a log in the woods, and use a tool to cut a v-shaped noting in it and a small depression next to it.
Put a piece of bark under the notch
Put a straight stick into the depression- roughly two feet long
Roll the stick between your hands while maintaining pressure against the wood. Do this until you get an ember.
Drop the ember onto the piece of bark, and move it to your tinder. Gently blow on it to start a flame
Add small sticks, and gradually work up to larger pieces of wood as the fire grows.

One you have fire, you should protect it. You can use it to light sticks on fire and use that to start new fires. Shield it from the rain to keep it from going out. If it does go out, you will have  to repeat this to start it up again.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 18, 2012, 04:51:11 PM
Using stone tools, we can cut down saplings and weave them to make baskets, which allow us to forage effectively and bring home large amounts of nuts and berries.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: DragoonWraith on May 18, 2012, 05:06:01 PM
Spoiler
Roll the stick between your hands while maintaining pressure against the wood. Do this until you get an ember.
This is almost impossible, and requires specific woods for it. The easiest way to have fire available is to find a natural fire, and preserve coals from it by periodically (several times per day) adding plant material to it. For friction, you'd do much better with a bow drill rather than attempting to do it with your hands.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 18, 2012, 05:36:06 PM
Spoiler
Roll the stick between your hands while maintaining pressure against the wood. Do this until you get an ember.
This is almost impossible, and requires specific woods for it. The easiest way to have fire available is to find a natural fire, and preserve coals from it by periodically (several times per day) adding plant material to it. For friction, you'd do much better with a bow drill rather than attempting to do it with your hands.
Yes, its the hardest way, but it is doable. I researched this. I'm not going to have us hope for a thunderstorm to light a fire before we freeze to death in winter, and I made sure we could maintain it just as easily as a natural fire once we do get it going. A bow drill is easier, but we don't have those yet.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 18, 2012, 10:18:14 PM
Invention: Rope/Yarn

There are several methods to this which apply differently to the materials we have on hand. First lets start with one of the simpler methods involving plant fibers. For larger ropes you can most types of grasses if you can find it in large, long quantities. But for thinner ropes (such as those you might use for a fire bow) you'll most likely have to find finer fibers to make it from. Just look for as thin a stalk as possible for those.

Once you have your materials make sure they all go the same way and that you have them laid in a uniform thickness before you start twisting. The better you can be about keeping the uniform thickness the less trouble you'll have with making the rope. Once you have it bundled up begin twisting from both ends in different directions. The same technique applies both on the large scale as well as the fine scale, though the larger you get the more likelihood that you'll need more people to complete it. Anyway, keep twisting until you've got a fairly tight bundle twisted out. Once you've gotten it tight enough keep twisting and you'll have someone grab the midpoint and pull so that the endpoints are now parallel and being twisted in the same direction side by side. Have the midpoint holder twist in the same direction you are as you continue twisting the endpoints. Keep this up until you either run out of material for the rope or you reach the desired length. Tie the endpoints together, loop it, and knot it to make sure it doesn't unravel later. There are other methods for making rope that require less effort and can make stronger ropes, but those require tools and craftsmanship we haven't proven capable of yet. This should do for now. If this invention passes you should be able to make a fire bow now guys. We can also improve the ties on our spears and other tools to make them last longer and take a bit more abuse now that the thing tying it together is harder to break. Other than that there are like 101 uses for rope so go nuts with this one.

Now that we have the basics out of the way lets talk other materials that you can make out of rope. We just talked plant fibers, but we can also use such things as animal hair and intestine. the intestine should be fairly easy. Cut the intestine into strips; keeping it uniform should be fairly easy considering that they'll all be cut from the same length. This sort of rope will be more flexible than plant fiber typically, but will most likely have less strength and we will have less of the material on hand since it will rely on our hunting. The animal hair requires a bit more preparation because the hair must first be spun into yarn before it becomes rope. Make sure to do this on something clean like a flat rock or on top of a clean animal skin. You don't want particles getting caught up in here and tangling it up. Make sure you're taking fairly long hair, at least 2 inches in length after cutting and lay them out so they're all laid in the same direction. This can take a while. This will require a great deal of skill and practice, but if you can it is possible to clump together the hair and spin it while pulling it out of the clumped hair to form a yarn. This is very precarious and can take a good deal of time so this method is not recommended unless you need a very strong rope. Once you have this yarn spun out you should be able to make a rope out of it in a similar fashion to the other fibers. This method if done correctly can make a rope with much more strength than the other two materials. It will take a quite a bit of time so try the other two methods first to begin if possible. The yarn can form other things besides rope, so if you can learn to spin the yarn it will be worthwhile once it's mastered.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 19, 2012, 05:42:48 AM
Yarn does not pass yet, but rope does. We also have fire, and there are more than enough methods that do not require a drill at all.

Status: We are in good shape. We aren't cold and not very hungry. Autumn slowly continues. We got stone tools and weapons, we got spear throwers and we got rope.
Technology: Stone tools and spear throwers, rope and firemaking.
Current Events: Some of the hunters, while at the river, note the fish and wonder about them. Also, something stalks the group at night, from a distance.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 19, 2012, 10:09:43 AM
lumberjacking
Take a stone axe into the woods, and find a tree suitable for your plans. Repeatedly swing the axe near the base of the tree to cut it down. When the tree starts to fall over, yell "Timber!" to alert nearby people of the danger. We don't have many wasy of moving the resulting logs, so you must either select smaller trees that you can move by hand, or be prepared to utilize the log where it falls.


Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 19, 2012, 01:18:39 PM
We should probably leave the fish alone for now - our foraging and hunting is going to be enough. However, the big issue here is preparing for the winter. Clay is common and should be easily available to us, and we have water to make slip with. By rolling the clay into long thin tubes and then connecting them at the ends we can form rings, and stack them upon one another, then connect them with the slip (a mix of water and clay). Stacking these constructions on top of a round base will produce basic storage containers. Then we dig a pit with our tools, pile the pottery inside, pile on combustible materials and then burn them until they run out. The temperatures reached with this method are sufficient to cook the clay completely, giving us pottery in which to store supplies for the winter.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 19, 2012, 02:04:26 PM
Note on lumberjacking. We have ropes to drag so if we want the whole tree intact get some help from the rest of you and carry or drag. Very possible that you could also just cut it into smaller, more easily carry able pieces, and then carry those.

When you say yarn isn't completed, do you mean that it needs more explanation and/or tools to do it or that it's just going to take more time for them to practice?

Invention: Guards/Buddy System

There are a lot of dangerous things out there and you need to make sure you're not caught unawares. The first way to prevent this is to never be caught alone. Always go in pairs at the very least, as when danger comes for you alone you'll need help that others can't give you if they're not there. Always bring your stone spears for protection from wild animals and the like. Don't forget what I taught you about making noise and appearing threatening. Most predators will not bother with what they assume to be not worth the trouble, unless your in their territory. Make sure to back away slowly when making these noises as putting distance between you and the threat is the best method for keeping safe. If you're too close to them though, out right running might inspire them to chase and they can most likely run faster than you. Post at least two people to watch everyone else while you guys sleep depending on how easy it is to cover our shelter and watch possible entry points. Rotate this duty so no one is stuck with it for too long. It does involve staying up all night, so you might want o split it into shifts so everyone can at least get some sleep. Keep fire sources up at night so you can see your surroundings well enough to tell them apart. Sticks with animal fat/tree sap at one end can be lit on that end to allow you to carry fire with you, but be careful not to drop them as you don't want to start a forest fire on accident. It can be difficult to stay up so late at night but keep vigilant, you're protecting your family and you don't want them to get hurt by something no one saw coming.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 19, 2012, 02:21:32 PM
Using our geography skills, send some scouting parties into the mountains. With winter  coming, we will need shelter, and if we can find caves, a lot of the work will be done. You are saved most of the effort of construction, they are very sturdy, and provide protection from the elements. They tend to have a fairly constant temperature year-round, making them cool in the summer, and warm in the winter. Ideally the cave will be located close to a source of water. Make sure the cave is uninhabited, and will have room for everyone.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 19, 2012, 03:00:14 PM
Lumberjacking is go, and very useful to boot.
Ditto for the pottery. The description sounds correct enough and I'm willing to believe it.
Yarn issue is mainly that of refinement and focus. So far, the directives had been simple. Heck, rope is borderline problematic.

Status: We are in good shape. We have enough food and clothing for everyone. We have a number of stone tools, spear throwers and ropes. We have a small stock of woods and a few clay jugs. We have found a cave mouth up the river. Autumn is around mid-way along.
Technology: Stone tools and spear throwers, ropes, fire making and basic pottery.
Current Events: The first several watches had failed at their post by falling asleep. The stalker was identified as a large wolf.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 19, 2012, 03:11:43 PM
Would this imply that we should make efforts to advance their education so they understand us better?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 19, 2012, 03:41:40 PM
It in fact would, yes.

More directly, it implies that you have adult children on hand. They can perform crudely now. The most trained the group has right now are the hunters, since they go about their duty on a very strict basis.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 19, 2012, 03:51:42 PM
Using our foraging expertise, fire and water, we can collect, dry and then brew tea by putting dry or fresh leaves into water and then boiling them, which will help our guards stay awake at night. It will also be useful as a hot beverage in the winter. Since we have pottery, we can make pots in which to brew the tea, as well as boil water above the fire in, and cups to hold the tea itself as it is drunk.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 19, 2012, 04:35:38 PM
I think it would be good to get an idea of what they don't know that makes learning some of these instructions difficult. We could teach them much, but I think I'd like to get an idea of a starting point.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 20, 2012, 02:39:42 AM
To answer Geigan's inquiry:
The group are essentially very crude adults. They comprehend what you tell them, but they don't have the lifelong experiences or formal education that allows for precision and dedication. Anything above surviving is a bit large for them right now.
In essence, many of the upcoming developments will need a base of practice.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 20, 2012, 02:50:49 AM
Invention: Practice makes perfect

Some things need dedication and hard work to learn such as spinning yarn. Not everything comes to you on the first time you try it. Some skills need development, which means you need to try them over and over again until you get them down correctly. Take spear throwing for instance, remember how you threw that spear the first time? Have you landed more or less often the more you've gotten to throw them? More often correct? You have to land these targets as often as possible so lets do this "practice" thing. We can do it when you have time while you're not hunting or creating more tools. to make sure you get fed so why don't you go find a tree and mark it with a knife. Now come back to a good distance and throw your spears at it. Now retrieve your spears and do it again... and again... and again. This may seem boring and tedious, but notice as you keep doing so, how often your spears land on the target. As you practice you'll get better and as you get better the easier it will be to perform the tasks you've practiced. This applies to almost everything you can do. You throw spears at targets regularly you'll land them on target more often and with more precision. You run every day you'll get faster and run longer. The more tools you make and the more you think about how you make them the better quality they will be. If you continue to work with the animal hair and work on pulling and spinning it you'll eventually be able to make proper yarn. So practice hard on your various skills and see how you are able to improve with time and effort. You can get quite far on practiced skill, but only if you practice!
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 20, 2012, 01:13:31 PM
We have achieved training! This has several benefits:

Status: Autumn is well on its way. We are well fed. We aren't cold. We have plenty of tools, pots, jugs and ropes. We are keeping watch at night.
Technology: Stone tools at a refined level, spear throwers, jugs and pots, fire and rope making.
Current Events: The group has split into roles, some dedicated hunters, while others are dedicated potters. Overall morale is high with the new found direction. Some worries are expressed about the winter and the blandness of meals. Bad health is on a slow rise.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on May 20, 2012, 01:18:50 PM
Invention: Exercise

Everyone in the group needs work their body every day, even if they are not hunting.  Without it, your bodies will slowly start to get weaker and weaker, making it hard to escape from anything that decides to chase you.  Set aside at least one hour each day for activities that will keep your body strong.  You can walk, run, lay down on the ground and sit up repeatedly, or even practice throwing spears at targets to see if you can get as good as the hunters.  This way, everyone stays as healthy and strong as possible.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 20, 2012, 01:22:24 PM
Blandness of meals? What happened to our foragers with baskets?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 20, 2012, 01:35:48 PM
How will children work? Do we have to instruct them to reproduce, or will that just happen naturally over time?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 20, 2012, 02:07:55 PM
Children - well, not really sure about that.

About baskets - totally forgot to talk about them. They didn't make the cut, since weaving isn't quite as simple as just doing it. Basket weaving takes some degree of skill and instruction.
Also, foraging? Have you tried foraging with 0 familiarity with good and bad berries/roots? That's a recipe for disaster.

Exercise makes the cut. Not gonna do a status report yet, though.

As for the meals - currently all they are eating is the meat brought in by hunters. It gets boring.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 20, 2012, 10:55:25 PM
Hm. Well, clearly we need more varied food, which should also help with health.

By tying rope together in a grid-like pattern, we can make gillnets. We can tie stones to the bottom of the net, and hang the top on either hollow ceramic floaters (in the case of a shoreline net) or by running a rope across a river by tying it to trees, and then suspending the rope from that. Large fish swimming downstream become tangled in the net, then we periodically pull it out and collect them.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 20, 2012, 11:04:49 PM
I think we need knots first. Take two pieces of rope, or two ends of the same rope.
Place them so they are overlapping, then twist the end of one back around the other, around to the front again. Take the two ends, and repeat this process, pushing the last end through the opening over the last twist. Pull it tight, and you have a basic knot.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 20, 2012, 11:43:31 PM
Considering that "tie rock to stick" was already a thing, I don't think we need to invent knots.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 20, 2012, 11:57:09 PM
Considering that "tie rock to stick" was already a thing, I don't think we need to invent knots.
You can just wrap the rope around it a few times then tuck the end, which isn't  really using know.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 21, 2012, 01:22:51 AM
Mystify is right, it wasn't so much tie as fasten best as you can.

Also, knots + nets = fishing. So we have fishing.

Status: We aren't cold or hungry. We have plenty of tools in addition to new nets. We keep watches at night. Our group has devoted parties for various jobs, including a new one dedicated to fishing. The group tries to stay in good shape and succeeds.
Technology: Stone tools, spear throwers, fishing and hunting, fire making, rope making, net tying and basic pottery.
Current Events: The group celebrates fishes as a new source of food as well as the variance it brings. Some of them cough up a bone or two before they choke, eating a bit carelessly.
The wolf continues to watch at night, but from a slightly greater distance due to the watchmen. The chill winds of winter are beginning to be felt.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 21, 2012, 01:50:51 AM
We need to build up supplies for winter. It is time to make some Jerky. First, you need meat from hunting. You want it to be as fresh as possible. Start by trimming off as much fat as you can, which will make it last longer. Cut the meat into extremely thin strips.  Lay them out near your fire. You are trying to dry them, not cook them, but the high heat near the fire will help.  Make sure the jerky is throughly browned inside before it is done. Store the jerky in a dry place, possibly using our pots. When winter comes, we can move it outside so the cold will help preserve it. Try to hunt and make as much jerky as possible for winter.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on May 21, 2012, 02:54:22 AM
I believe it was overlooked in the directives earlier, but winter will bring excessive cold, and we need protection.  A group needs to head towards the nearby mountains to find caves.  That way, the first storm doesn't wipe us out.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 21, 2012, 02:59:44 AM
we already have caves.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 21, 2012, 03:27:37 AM
We will need to stop winter winds from blowing into our little cave. To that effect, I propose the technology of sewing: by poking holes inside furs with sharp rocks and then pushing thin rope through them with smaller, longer rocks, we can connect a large amount of hides together, and then hang them across the entrance of the cave using ropes secured above with piles of rocks or by tying them around some tree trunks. We can leave a flap in the cover secured using knots, rather than sewing, so that people could get in and out by tying and untying it.

Stronger winds will tear this thing apart though. We'll need to reinforce its structural integrity somehow...  ;)
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 21, 2012, 03:40:48 AM
Jerky and sewing make the cut, the latter on merit of practice.
About the caves, they are as of yet unexplored.

Status: We have started to make the move up the mountain and towards the caves. We have started making jerky and placing it in pots. (The mention of everything else has become unneeded. Food and clothes are assumed automated, as well as tools for now.)
Technology: Stone tools and spear throwers, ropes and nets, we can make fire and jerky and produce pottery.
Current events: The wolf has stopped watching us at night. Rains have started to occur regularly. An argument has developed over a particularly well made spear thrower and who owns it.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 21, 2012, 02:43:05 PM
Explore the caves, make sure to bring fire so you can see your way around. Note any strange looking rocks as certain minerals should be quite useful if we can find them. Be wary of any animals that may have taken shelter in the caves as well. Shout into the mouth of the cave before exploring further in, to check for animals. Do not proceed if something loud responds. You may want to bring the hunters to deal with any animals in the cave.

Invention: Bone tools

While not as sturdy or as long lasting as tools made out of rocks, bones can be made to do more precise work. Bone needles can be made from thin bones to help with sewing as you can tie yarn to the end for easier, smaller scale sewing. A bone knife sharpened from thicker bones using stone while not as strong as one made of stone, may be better for smaller more precise cuts. A skull might make a useful bowl to hold food, water, or paint in. The thick round end of leg bones that connects into a hip bone can be used to mash and mix some substances together, such as paints easier. Bone hooks made from curved bones can be quite useful for hanging things, fishing in still waters if you connect it to string, or several other uses. A bone saw can be made from a shoulder blade by filing small indentions in it with the edge of your stone knives. This last one is a rather meticulous to create tool, but it can be quite useful for cutting soft woods and plants if created. A similar tool can be made from hard stone, though it will not have teeth but rather a long singular meticulously sharpened edge to be dragged back and forth over the to-be-cut area. The stone saws are a bit crude, but can more easily cut harder woods in most cases. These last two tools should allow us to work wood a bit easier if their creation can be mastered.

Also, stop arguing over the stone thrower. The one who made it can claim ownership. If you want a well made spear thrower, make it yourself or ask the person who made such a good spear thrower to make another one for you. If they made that one they can certainly make more, so you don't have to argue over the only one there.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 21, 2012, 03:58:12 PM
Bone tools, the entire list, makes the cut. Having been working with many carcasses so far had made for easier bone work.

As for your solution to the spear thrower incident - remember that you are influencing, not giving direct commands. What would serve to resolve this in between themselves?

I'll post about the cave once we get more developments in.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 21, 2012, 04:08:49 PM
One should not argue with one's fellows over something as small as a spear thrower. Ownership should by rights belong to that which created something. If you want a spear thrower like that one would it not be better to ask the one who made it, to make another one or better yet ask them how they made it so well so your own creations can match theirs. By working together to advance craftsmanship you will do better than attempting to take from others what is rightfully theirs.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 21, 2012, 04:46:31 PM
If you are going to survive, you need to work together. Do not worry about something as petty as ownership. The spear thrower belongs to the tribe, as does anything else you gather or make. By supporting each other, you  will be stronger. This will allow specialization. Certain people can focus on their own set of skills, and acheive a much higher proficiency at it than trying to do it all yourself. Even if the skill does not directly feed you, then you should be able to give your skills to the tribe, and receive food and support. If one person is really good at making spear throwers, let them make all of the spear throwers. If everyone is doing what they are good at, the tribe as a whole will produce more, so when you share it there is more for everybody.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on May 21, 2012, 09:15:54 PM
Have a spear-throwing contest to determine who in the hunting party can best use the spear-thrower. Stick a piece of wood into the ground, draw a line in the dirt a distance away from it, and see who can hit the piece of wood most often with the spear-thrower, starting with out of three hits. Let the hunter who hits most often use the spear-thrower.

Begin the process of testing plants for edibility. First, let the tester find a plant in the area that is plentiful. Before the first test, she should fast for a night, drinking only water. Separate the plant into parts, and test only one part you think may be edible.

For the first test, rub the plant against your skin, on the inside of your wrist. Crush it so the sap touches your skin and hold it there for a while, perhaps the length of an interesting conversation, then remove it. Do not eat again until dinner, or touch other strange things. If your skin reacts discard the plant; you may test a different plant elsewhere on you and continue if you wish, if it's still early. Eat dinner.

The next morning, do not eat breakfast, but cook a portion of the plant. Hold a small portion against your lip for a few minutes once it has cooled. If you notice any strange sensation such as burning or tingling in your lip, discard the plant part. Otherwise, hold it on your tongue without chewing for about five times that length. Discard the plant if your tongue reacts strangely as well. Finally, chew the plant and hold it in your mouth for as long as you held it on your tongue. Discard the plant if your mouth reacts strangely to it (bad taste probably doesn't count). If all is well, swallow the small portion of plant.

Do not eat or drink anything until dinner. If you feel sick, induce vomiting and drink plenty of water. Discard the plant if you experience any such unpleasantness.

Always wait until any unpleasant reactions end before testing a new plant, and be sure you have fasted beforehand.

Once a plant part passes every test, prepare a salad of just it, cooked the same way you cooked it before. Eat it for breakfast and do not eat anything until dinner. If you still have no trouble with it, add just that part of the plant, prepared just that way, to our food capabilities.

Do not do this often, as it is still rather dangerous, but do it particularly not often after we have identified an edible plant.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 21, 2012, 09:22:29 PM
Also take note of any other effects these plants have on you and keep track of them. By trial and error we may be able to discover some other useful properties of these plants besides being edible and discover some knowledge of herb-lore. Merely continue the above instructions as normal and note any other effects the plants may have on you. Do not take this as license to try plants more often than normal. We do not want curiosity getting the better of us.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 21, 2012, 10:35:19 PM
Remember that time you saw that giant Elk in the woods, and it got away? Why not tell everyone else a story about it. At night, when everyone is gathered around the fire, would be a great time for it.
This should help people bond, forming stronger tribal ties, as well as serve as a way to pass information around the tribe. Eventually, it can serve as a basic way to preserve information between generations.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 22, 2012, 01:04:12 AM
I love how we have 3 perfectly acceptable ways to handle the spear thrower issue. However, Mystify's way seems the most acceptable to me since it's a particularly logical conclusion in a small cluster of humans.
Specialization is an extension of practice and actually something that has already developed. The group has already split into dedicated tasks based on natural skill and accumulated skill.
Contest makes the cut as a concept, though this particular contest finds another use, as below.
The method for testing out plants makes the cut, but an important alternative method is still relevant and out there. Herb-lore also works, but to a lesser degree, since they aren't really prone to noticing.
Story really makes the cut, but can you figure out another use for seeing animals in the wild?

Status: The food stores for winter continue to grow; Bone weapons of fair quality are made and distributed to interested parties; Some of the hunters begin to tell stories of their hunts during meals, boosting morale and spicing up life; Plant edibility tests begin and some rope makers (those elected to have the least immediately required skill) develop rashes but some berries are found good to eat.
Technology: Stone and bone tools, spear throwers, fire, ropes, nets and yarn, pottery and jerky production.
Current Events: The spear thrower incident is resolved by the hunting leader, chosen by way of contest, and he requests that new spear throwers be made on par with the good one. The resolution is accepted and the argument is moved past.
The wood cutters, accompanied by 2 of the hunters, make a small exploration party going into the cave found by the river. After all the tests preceding entry, they go inside and take less than a day to come back out. The cave is a small system of 6 chambers of varying sizes, one of them large enough for half the group to be in at the same time.
The hide screens are near completion, but the group is unsure how to prop them in such a way that they would block the cave mouth efficiently.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on May 22, 2012, 02:33:21 AM
While slowly testing plants for safety will work, we can also get some help from the herbivores in the area.  Get two or three people who are good at being quiet, and send them out for an Animal Study.  Have them find a creature that eats plants and follow it, observing where it goes for food, where it drinks, how it protects itself against predators, or anything else they believe could be useful. At the end of the day, have them come back and tell the story to the group, to discuss how it can help you.  If you see it eat any fruits and not get sick, then you should test those fruits to see if humans can eat them as well. And if they lead you to running water, try to remember its location - you never know when your current water source may dry up.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 22, 2012, 02:57:37 AM
Thank you, Fako! That is precisely what I was looking for in the other method.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on May 22, 2012, 04:28:13 AM
I was debating on posting it sooner, but I was worried about the onset of winter... not a very long period of time to gather information on the beasties.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 22, 2012, 04:51:39 AM
True enough, but really: any time is good time. Steps taken now are steps useful for later.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on May 22, 2012, 05:36:30 PM
Our bone carvers can adapt their knives and techniques in order to whittle objects out of our wood supplies as well. Using a stone or bone knife, shave small pieces off the wood until you bring it to the shape you desire. Purely wooden spearpoints can be carved this way, out of greener wood, and the tips hardened by rotating over fire for back-up for stone spears.

One way we should use whittling is to develop a bow drill. This useful device has five parts, and will utilize whittling, wood, and rope. For the first part, the board, split a larger branch to make a long board about as thick as your thumb and more than twice as wide, preferably three. Whittle off the protrusions.
For the second part, the spindle, take a section of wood the length of your foot, and whittle it into a round dowel about as wide around as the first knuckle of your thumb.
For the third part, the handhold, whittle a piece of wood about as long as the distance from your thumb to your wrist into a board with a comfortable edge for gripping. Gouge a cone-shaped hole in the center about the depth of a fingernail.
The fourth part will be rope. Use one made of animal intestine, as it will likely be better able to withstand the friction.
The last part is the bow. Take a green branch, about as thick as your finger and the length from your elbow to fingertip, just a bit curved. Ensure it's somewhat flexible but not fragile, whittling a little off from the inside of the curve to let it bend a bit better if need be. Split the length of the lower part of your thumb at each end with your knife. They should be parallel to the ground if you set the bow on the ground. Take two short lengths of rope and tie them snugly around the bow about halfway up each split.
Tie one end of the bowstring into a knot, and set it in a split so the knot is on the outside of the bow. Move the rope around the bow up a bit toward the bowstring to tighten the split, then repeat on the other side.

I'll teach you how to use it later (/has been technically writing this for 12 hours and has other things to do).
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 22, 2012, 05:58:48 PM
To make hunting easier, you should learn how to track. First, look at the ground. See how you leave footprints in soft ground? So do animals. You can follow those tracks to find animals easier. You can even learn which animals leave which types of tracks, so you can identify the creature. You can also look for recently broken branches to see which way something went, and other signs of its passage.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 23, 2012, 01:47:27 AM
Whittling makes the cut, and so does the bow drill fire making tools. Mind you, these constitute 2 inventions in one post and I request you try and only make one per post in the future.

Tracking also makes the cut, though this is a simple level. There are more things to watch out for :)

Status: We are well fed and with a diverse diet after relatively extensive plant edibility tests(Unless a new need or development come up, food goes out of the mention cycle); We have a growing store of jerky; Whittled wooden spears and stakes are produced as back up weapons and stocked in the caves; A lot of the supplies and equipment is being transferred into the caves to prepare for winter.
Technology: Stone and bone tools, spear throwers and whittled wood; fire making; ropes, yarn and nets; pottery; jerky.
Current events: The cave system is set up and divided into functional rooms, with the largest 3 devoted for sleeping quarters with fires, one for equipment, another for supplies and the last one remains without use. Some worry is expressed about both the smoke from fires in the cave and the hide screen, that has yet to be propped up.
Another worry is food diversity while in the cave. We have gotten used to fish, meat and berries and going down to only jerky feels like a step back.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 23, 2012, 08:09:07 AM
I propose drying herbs, fruits and vegetables - since we already know which of them kill us the least, we can prepare them for the winter this way. Propping up a ceramic slab over a low fire by means of several rocks, and then keeping sliced up fruits and veggies, or just herbs, on it for a long period of time, we can expel the moisture from them and make them last longer.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 23, 2012, 08:25:25 AM
I did a bit of research into drying them. I'm fairly sure there's more to drying than that. Try and go into more depth on the process.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 23, 2012, 08:16:56 PM
There really isn't. Hell, my grandmother used to dry apples just by cutting rings and then stringing them up in the sun.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 24, 2012, 12:12:15 AM
And I am sure someone explained to her a lot more beforehand. From what I've read, you want specific amounts of time under specific conditions of heat. We can't measure either yet.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 24, 2012, 12:21:27 AM
And I am sure someone explained to her a lot more beforehand. From what I've read, you want specific amounts of time under specific conditions of heat. We can't measure either yet.
So vague instructions of "dry  the meat by the fire" is good enough for jerky, but not fruits? How is it harder to dry fruit that jerky?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 24, 2012, 12:25:01 AM
You're right. I'm willing to handwave veggie and fruit drying as well, but this won't be happening again.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 24, 2012, 02:30:39 AM
Invention: Tripod/Lashing

Take three equal length wooden poles. These poles could be taken from our wood stores or cut from equally sized small trees. Saw them down to an equal length and make sure they're relatively similar in thickness as you lay them all parallel to each other and close together. Now knot a rope to the end of one of them leaving about a foot of room from the actual end of the pole and where you're tying. Take the free end of the rope from this first pole, take it under the second pole, and over the third pole to wrap it around and do the opposite as you bring it back to the first pole. Repeat this three to four times until you're at the first pole again and as you're wrapping it back around to go under the second pole again, instead wrap it around the crisscrossing parts of the rope between the first and second pole you just made. After that take the end of the rope over the second pole again and wrap the crisscrossing parts of the rope between the second and third pole in a similar fashion. Now knot the rope around that last rope and once again on the third pole. Stand the poles up, twist them around so they each use the ropes to support their weight against each other, and you should have a properly standing tripod.

The techniques used to tie these together are called lashing and can be done in a number of ways to tie things rigidly to other things. You'll use it again subsequently to prop up those hides to cover the cave entrance. First take two created tripods and stand them up on opposite sides of the cave entrance. Now get a piece of wood to span the gap between the top of these two tripods. If you don't have a piece of wood that long grab two long sturdy pieces and lash them together by using the techniques of wrapping the rope multiple times around the two pieces and tying it off. Put the piece or pieces on top of the tripods in the nook at their top and lash the ends to the tripods securely. You should be able to hang the hides over the free space between the tripods on the pole(s).

Lashing can take a quite a bit of practice to get down correctly. Work on getting the ties and wraps as tight as possible to keep the rigidness a bit more solid. These ties may need to be redone occasionally to keep the ropes from breaking or coming loose.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 24, 2012, 03:34:05 AM
Useful. I'll wait for another invention before the next status update. I think that the group is ready for the winter, though.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 24, 2012, 09:09:29 AM
Why don't we  make Cave paintings?
we have paints. We have stories. you can draw pictures of the animals on the cave walls and show the stories.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 24, 2012, 09:32:21 AM
There's not much else to do during winter - we could always go for procreation, hehe...

However, given that winter is coming and we're going to spend all our time stuck in a cave, I'm going to go ahead and suggest sanitation instead. By which I mean that we should poop in dedicated clay pots of appropriate size and then toss that outside somewhere designated (away from water supplies and off the beaten path). And then maybe scrub the pot out with snow, so that it doesn't get gross. And then scrub your own hands with snow, to at least get them sort of clean.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 24, 2012, 09:50:16 AM
There's not much else to do during winter - we could always go for procreation, hehe...
I figure that it was a good first step towards a written language.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 24, 2012, 11:38:52 AM
Winter is rearing its ugly head. Meta-heads-up: You got one more update, of 3 or more inventions, before we switch seasons. Think what we should do be doing.

Status: Some of the hunters, on their time off, begin to decorate the caves with paintings. Preparations for winter continue and the stocks of food and wood grow. The screen is propped up and remains relatively stable. Stable enough. First regulations about sanitation come up and enforced by the chosen leaders of each group.
Technology: Stone and bone tools, spear throwers and whittled wood; ropes, nets, yarn and lashing; pottery; fire making; jerky and dried plant-food; concepts of painting and sanitation.
Current Events: With the screen up, final moves into the cave system are made.
The hunters contemplate the winter and request warmer hide clothing, in case hunting is required.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on May 24, 2012, 07:07:25 PM
With winter fast approaching, there will soon be a time when you are unable to leave the caves for days, sometimes even weeks at a time.  It's going to be difficult to keep your heads level unless you do something to entertain yourselves, like cooperative storytelling.  Stories are already a good way to keep your minds active, but with cooperation you can keep your problem solving abilities sharp.  For example, have a hunter take a group of people and talk them through a hunt.  Let them pose ideas on how to proceed, with the hunter explaining what the consequences would be.  This will help to keep you thinking, as well as possibly reveal tactics that the hunters have not considered.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 24, 2012, 11:19:56 PM
Next we should invent dice and rulebooks...  ;)
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 25, 2012, 12:47:07 AM
Kills a large animal, like a deer or bear. Skin it, keeping the fur intact, and clean it as best you can. Ideally we would tan them, but since we don't know how to do that we will have to make do, but we can use them as Blankets to keep warm during winter.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 25, 2012, 01:25:59 AM
I'm going to assume that dice and rulebooks aren't an actual serious contribution, for you don't mind :P

As for the other two, they make the cut and easily. One or more inventions to go before winter. Luckily, my Email doesn't receive an immediate update on new posts, so you could actually fit more than one until I check again.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on May 25, 2012, 07:46:43 AM
To tan a hide, first stretch and clean it of lingering meat and other substances as you've been doing. Meanwhile, in a pot, cook up a mash of the brains of the animal you're tanning mixed with a little water. When it's almost too hot to touch, rub this mash into the hide with your hands or warm rocks, though not on the side with the hair - if you want to remove the hair urine would be a good agent to use while you're cleaning but furs are warmer. Make sure you use all the brain mixture. Leave the brain-treated hide out of the sun for the length of a day, then submerge them in water overnight.

The next day, stretch the hide again and use a bone or wood wedge to push out the water from the hide, then work the hide with the rounded end of a bone or something made out of wood to render it pliable, going over every bit of the hide. Keep this up until the hide is completely dry.

Stretch the hide by pulling it back and forth through a rope loop, making sure the side without fur is the part touching the rope. Use a smooth stone to rub any parts that still seem imperfect in the main part afterward (there may be some parts on the edges you need to cut away).

Using one of our lashed tripods for support, smoke the hide over a smoldering fire using dry, rotten wood until it has an even color, making sure the smoke has to go through the skin and moving it to get through all parts. Take care not to let the skin catch on fire and also make sure the fire doesn't have open flames, fire too hot might ruin the skin.

Our furs from now on should be much more supple and workable, enhancing the quality of our blankets and fur clothing and the speed of sewing them, as well as be protected from rot.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 25, 2012, 09:25:28 AM
Now that we can work skins to a sufficient extent, we can cut them into strips with our tools, and then the real fun begins:

Snowshoes:

Now we will be able to hunt in the winter.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 25, 2012, 09:53:39 AM
Taking the tanned hides, we can make winter clothing by using much the same process as normal clothing, but making sure it is extensive. Cover as much skin as possible, including a hood. Make sure to have some wrapped around the feet. Include a cloak, which you can wrap around yourself like a blanket if needed.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 25, 2012, 05:17:05 PM
All 3 of those make the cut. I gave you all my entire day to post more inventions.
Wow. Those were useful. We'll be plenty warm and prepared now.

Status: Preparations are as complete as they could be for the winter. The group moves into the caves and settles in. Winter comes around.
Notably, A final push had allowed the weavers to prepare a full winter attire for the hunters. Hunting will be possible, if needed, during winter. For now, there is enough food to last the season.
Technology: Stone and bone tools, spear throwers and whittled wood; ropes, nets, yarn, lashing and snowshoes; pottery; fire making; jerky and dried plant-food; tanning and warmer clothing; concepts of painting and sanitation.
Current Events: The caves have been generally wall-painted by hunters and later some of the other people. Discussions about the quality of the paintings rise.
The hunters also pose the questions of hunting and fighting animals to non-hunters. Discussions rise from those and the last room of the cave is converted to a type of training by words room.
Supplies are sufficient and no health problems arise so far.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 25, 2012, 07:16:20 PM
In order to keep our skills sharp, and perhaps train the non-hunters in case of emergency, we should supplement word-hunting with fight-hunting! By sparring, our warriors will be able to sharpen their skills while training others. We can use old spears we don't want anymore by removing their stone, rounding the tip with a stone or bone tool and then lashing skins around both ends of the spear to dull impacts it can make. Fighters should also wear full sets of our thick winter clothing and establish a set of rules: no hitting the head, no hitting between the waist and the knee, once you're hit in the torso you automatically lose and the fight ends.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on May 25, 2012, 10:36:17 PM
During sparring, it would help to have some of the better hunters act as tutors for the non-hunters, studying the fights and helping them improve their technique.  This same idea can be applied to any practiced skill - by having an expert work with a newcomer and explain it to them over time, the quality of work that the newcomer can create will increase quicker than it would by individual study.  You can have the best painters explain their art, the best spear throwers explain how to aim, and the best pottery makers explain their craft.  Make sure to provide actually useful information to them: "You aren't moving your feet" doesn't help nearly as much as "You need to shuffle around while you fight, to prevent the enemy from tripping you. Watch how I do it, and then try."
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 25, 2012, 10:38:47 PM
If you take one of the many pots, and paint it, we can have art. If there is spare leather, you could paint on that as well.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 28, 2012, 07:42:14 AM
Sparring and tutors are instantly picked up, with tutelage bleeding into other skills and groups.
Art is also go and many of the pots and walls are given pictures.

Status: Winter slowly deepens outside the caves. The group has yet to grow bored or restless.
Technology: Stone and bone tools, spear throwers and whittled wood; ropes, nets, yarn, lashing and snowshoes; pottery; fire making; jerky and dried plant-food; tanning and warmer clothing; painting and art; concept of sanitation.
Current Events: The food stores diminish as planned. Ample supplies remain. From outside the caves, apart from the whistling winds, odd sounds are heard.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 28, 2012, 09:28:01 AM
We're under attack!
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 28, 2012, 01:26:09 PM
We're under attack!
PAAAAAANIIIIIIIC.

On a more serious note, have a group of hunters check it out cautiously. ::)
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 28, 2012, 01:49:03 PM
GM's note:
Winter is going to play out differently than the other seasons.
Instead of supplying inventions, more Events will happen and you will need to direct how to deal with them.
The rate will remain 3 players or more between updates, though.
Good luck.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on May 28, 2012, 03:36:37 PM
The strange noises need to be investigated, we need to send people to Scout outside to check if it's dangerous.  Find the two hunters who are the best at staying hidden and quiet, and send them out to find the source of the noise.  It's important that whatever it is doesn't see you, just in case it is dangerous.   Find it, then return to the cave and tell the story to the group, that way you can work out a favorable solution together.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on May 29, 2012, 08:35:48 AM
Invent guards. Have two armed hunters stand just inside the cave entrance at all times, switching out at regular intervals so they don't get tired. At night they should instead stay in the outermost cavern with some fire, since the fire would attract attention if its light could be seen from outside. Remember that people who stay awake at night will need to sleep during the day. Other people can serve as guards if hunters are unavailable, particularly at night since attacks are less likely.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 29, 2012, 11:39:49 AM
Prime, Guards have already been invented.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 29, 2012, 01:45:02 PM
Pardon the double post.

Here goes a status update, dealing exclusively with the supplies status, health of the group and events:

Supplies: Supplies are ample and eaten as planned. Should last all winter.
Group Health: Health is good and no issues or complications arise. Sanitation is maintained.
Events:
The scouts leave for a long length of time, but less than a day, and return with the following report after follow the sound - a small decorated rock is embedded into the rocks higher up the mountain. The sound gets stronger when you go near it and it glows a faint red.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 29, 2012, 01:59:56 PM
This is worth investigating, but also warrants caution.
Poke it with a long stick.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Geigan on May 29, 2012, 02:04:07 PM
This is worth investigating, but also warrants caution.
Poke it with a long stick.
I agree with this. POKE IT.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 29, 2012, 02:20:27 PM
Pardon another shift in narrative. We'll follow specific threads sans Bold updates.

The same scouts return to the rock and poke with with a stick. Nothing remarkable happens, and the sound or glow do not change.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 29, 2012, 03:09:28 PM
Slowly get closer and put your hand near it. See if it seems to be radiating heat.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 29, 2012, 06:06:52 PM
The hunter feels a sensation not unlike fire, but without the searing heat.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 29, 2012, 07:08:50 PM
Clearly this is a sign! I propose we bring the rock into our cave and worship it as the mighty Sun God. If we pray to it, then surely summer will come again.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on May 29, 2012, 08:11:28 PM
Tug at the rock and see if part comes off.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 30, 2012, 12:54:05 AM
The hunter that had put his hand near the rock grabs it. Instantly, a trail of fire shoots out, coiling around his arm and appearing to sink into him. His hand now has a faint glow and vague images come to his mind's eye about outstretched hands and concentration.
The rock has lost much of its glow, and now only the hunter that touched it says he can hear a different sound come from it, while others say they are unable to hear any sound come from it. The rock is also still wedged into the mountain.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 30, 2012, 02:14:19 AM
Try cracking it open with a rock
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 30, 2012, 02:16:31 AM
With a few solid hits, the surrounding stone cracks and breaks and the glowing rock falls out. The hunter who had touched it picks it up and carries it back.
At the cave, a low of awe and interest is expressed at the rock, which finds a place at the largest of caverns.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on May 30, 2012, 07:35:25 AM
Images of outstretching your hand and concentrating? Should try that then, see if anything unusual happens (probably outside just in case).
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 30, 2012, 07:39:33 AM
The hunter (Whom, due to being unique, shall henceforth be known as Gavin) attempts to stretch his hand out and concentrate on the images. He receives further images, one of a fist and another of an open palm.
Concentrating on either, while his hand is in the same form, yields the following:
Fist - a fireball shoots out for about 10 ft away, burning out as it does.
Open Palm - a spray of fire shoots out in a cone about 3 ft away.
Both melt the snow with ease.
After trying out both, Gavin feels spent and rests. For now, we can't instruct him anymore.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on May 30, 2012, 07:47:39 AM
Interesting. Keep an eye out for any similar rocks while about. If this one gave Gavin a talent of creating fire, there might be more that give other talents, or the same.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on May 30, 2012, 07:59:49 AM
Once he wakes up, we should also see if he can teach others how to do this.

In the meantime, have everyone touch the rock.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 30, 2012, 08:02:08 AM
Supplies: Supplies are lasting as intended.
Group Health: Some complications arise with Gavin and whoever sleeps near the rock. They develop a fever.
Current Events: The group passes the time slowly, taking care of those with fever and attempting to keep themselves entertained. Every appears itching to do something outside, despite the cold.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 30, 2012, 09:44:32 AM
put the rock outside, and see if it creates a warm area.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 30, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Several members of the group tried to move the rock, but it was too hot to touch for them.
At that fact, Gavin laboriously did it, placing the rock outside. Within moments of being near snow, a few inches of snow around it had already melted. Further time outside did not increase the radius, though being away from the rock had made those with fever feel better.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on May 30, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
Does Gavin have a fever?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 30, 2012, 04:14:00 PM
Since the rock was moved outside, anyone who had a fever, Gavin included, now do not have a fever.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on May 30, 2012, 06:42:45 PM
Bring some of the melted snow inside to see if proximity/drinking causes fever. See if covering the stone can block the effects.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 30, 2012, 11:49:28 PM
I request a fuller suite of tests beyond just drinking and covering. Try and compose a larger list, please.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 31, 2012, 01:00:12 AM
Move some stones to make a special shelter for it away from the cave. Build up a pedestal so its not just sitting on the ground, place rocks to shield it from the elements, and put a roof over it. Gavin should be the one to deal with it as much as possible.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 31, 2012, 01:05:00 AM
The special shelter is prepared and Gavin transports the rock there. Despite being drawn to testing the rock more, the group feels that only Gavin should ever be around it.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 31, 2012, 09:40:24 AM
Can Gavin replicate the feats he performed when first coming in contact with the rock? Does he need to be close to the rock for that, or not?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on May 31, 2012, 02:41:41 PM
After some trial and experimentation, it is deduced the that further Gavin is from the rock, the less powerful the feats become. When standing right next to it, he can project fire to about 10 times the distance he was able at the first attempt.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on May 31, 2012, 03:03:07 PM
take some leather, and sew it into a pouch the right size for the stone. Attach two strips of leather that Gavin can put his arms through, so he can wear it. He now has the option to run around with the stone in close proximity to do awesome fire stuff.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on May 31, 2012, 07:53:29 PM
Obviously we must pit our best hunter against Gavin to solve the ages-old Wizard vs Fighter debate.  :P
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 01, 2012, 12:48:07 AM
Well, I think we've thoroughly used up the Gavin storyline for now. So here's a status update1

Supplies: Recent events with Gavin had caused some turbulence. In that, the once sufficient supplies dwindled when unexplained moisture crept into some of the containers. Food for about 3 weeks has been spoiled. Our supplies our stretched right now, but they can last the rest of winter. We will be hungry, though.
Health Status: With the fevers gone, the group is back to good health.
Current Events: With the food spoiled, the hunters, Gavin among them, volunteer to go out hunting, despite having no experience hunting in winter. Many of the group support the idea.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 01, 2012, 12:51:05 AM
Yeah, we should try to supplement out food supply. Gavin should see what he can do about keeping others warm with his fire. Without burning them.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 01, 2012, 02:25:48 AM
They'll be needing some form of winter hunting. It is essentially different to what they have been doing so far.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 01, 2012, 02:54:54 AM
They'll be needing some form of winter hunting. It is essentially different to what they have been doing so far.
maybe I'm just ignorant here, but doesn't "Go outside, find animals, kill animals" work in any season? Esp. when you have snow so everything leaves tracks that are easy to follow. Its not like we are fishing and so need to learn how to deal with the ice.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on June 01, 2012, 07:30:15 AM
We won't be able to rely on the animals moving around to seek food nearly as often. Instead we should find more sheltered from the wind areas they'll be attracted to in the cold, particularly places sheltered from the wind but exposed to the sun. Creatures previously more active at twilight might wait for the warmth of the sun on clearer days before starting to move much.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 01, 2012, 01:12:50 PM
We should scout for more caves. They may have hibernating/hiding animals inside, and would allow our hunters to make multiple-day trips searching for game, spending nights inside these prepared outposts they already know exist.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 02, 2012, 01:18:46 AM
The hunters split into two groups: one moves along the mountain and the other, lead by Gavin, heads into the woods.
They both return that evening. Gavin's group was able to hunt some big game and the other group located 2 caves, though free of residents. The big game feeds us for the day.
Gavin and his group mainly attributed the relative small success to being unused to conditions, but say they can get more next time.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on June 02, 2012, 11:35:43 PM
Ok, now that we have time, we need to start worrying about chil- wait. Wrong planet.

Next time the hunting party goes out, a new tactic should be attempted.  You are accustomed to stalking prey in the open, then throwing spears at it until it dies.  In winter, this isn't as effective as cornering your prey can be.  When prey is found, have the hunting party work as a group to force the creature to run into an area that it can't escape, allowing you more time to kill it.  While doing this, it is important to keep your distance from the prey, to prevent hunters being injured.  If Gavin is with the group, his ability to shoot flames should be a very effective way to send the creature running directly away from him, making trapping easier.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 03, 2012, 12:48:43 AM
Expanding on that, if there are any cliffs nearby, you can try chasing it off the cliff or cornering it against the cliff.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 03, 2012, 01:29:12 AM
The hunters use the new insight about cornering and chase and are able to return with considerably more game.

Supplies: Back on track. The hunters are able to bring in a few days worth at a time. We'll last the winter.
Group Health: No complications or issues.
Current Events: Gavin has slowly shaken off his role as a hunter, training more and more near the rock with his powers. The other hunters express their worry about it, but opt to elect a replacement leader for when Gavin isn't around.
Winter is half over. There may still be time for more excitement, but for now things are calm.

(Prompt - help define Gavin's role in the group.)
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 03, 2012, 01:39:52 AM
He hasn't had any insights from the stone, has he? Just awesome fire powers?
I think he should act as a defender of the tribe, and also act to stop any crimes that occur.
We should also paint his furs red. 
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 03, 2012, 01:51:49 AM
Mystify: We aren't facing either in enough quantity to account a dedicated role. Also, we have no idea how to dye furs and Gavin expresses annoyance at ruining his furs with paint.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 03, 2012, 02:16:27 AM
Mystify: We aren't facing either in enough quantity to account a dedicated role. Also, we have no idea how to dye furs and Gavin expresses annoyance at ruining his furs with paint.
But how else are we supposed to make him into a superhero?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 03, 2012, 02:17:53 AM
You're not supposed to... yet.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 03, 2012, 02:24:04 AM
Hmmm.
There are no enemies to use him as a weapon against
there are no crimes to prevent, nor super villains to foil.
There are nobody to intimidate
Nothing that we need to burn down
I never realized being able to shoot fire out of your hands could be so useless

Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on June 03, 2012, 01:34:32 PM
While Gavin has the skill set of a hunter, it will be easier if the group instead thinks of him as a new specialization - a mystic.  He has an ability that no one else currently has, which can be applied to a large number of situations.  As such, there will be days when it will be best for him to not go hunting, instead helping the other groups with his ability.  His fire can be utilized to explore caves, relight fires, defend the group, or even cook food if it is needed.  However, there is one catch: for Gavin's ability to be useful, he needs to be able to practice it, just like the hunters practice spear throwing, and the potters practice pottery making.

To Gavin: Your ability will grow stronger with repeated use.  Think of it as exercising, you have to spend some time each day using it.  But make sure that you don't ignore your responsibilities in the process.  If you need a day near the rock, take a day near the rock, but expect to lead the hunting party the day after.  You have to balance your desires with the needs of the group.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 03, 2012, 10:49:06 PM
I still think we should worship the stone, with Gavin as head priest.

Also, we ought to invent refrigeration. Grab a bunch of snow or ice, and then put it somewhere in the back of the cave (or any of the extra caves we have, though we'd want to cover it to avoid animals eating our stuff). If it doesn't melt after a while, this is a good place to build up a large pile of ice, and then store fresh meat in the pile until we need to use it. Deep caves are naturally cold anyway (much like good, proper cellars), and the additional ice will keep the meat chilled regardless of the weather outside.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 03, 2012, 11:07:26 PM
I still think we should worship the stone, with Gavin as head priest.
I'd rather avoid that. It hasn't given him any knowledge, so anything he comes up with won't be any better than anyone else, he'll just have fire to back it up. This could lead to an oppressive regime with people capable of using the fire powers forming a ruling class other those who don't. We should form a society where they are respected and work alongside the others for the greater good.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 04, 2012, 10:40:38 AM
And how exactly is an oppressive society with a fire priest ruling caste not desirable? It would be totally badass and you know it.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on June 04, 2012, 12:09:41 PM
The mention of pottery making has me thinking, he should test his abilities as well as practice them. Determine what happens when he changes the configuration of his hand from the two ways he knows but focuses the same, keeps his hand the same but tries different means of focusing or focusing with different goals, compare the heat produced by the fire he can produce to the fires simply burning, see if he can sustain the fire for any length of time, and (carefully) see if he has any reduced sensitivity to heat from fires other than from the rock.

Worshipping the rock seems a bit silly. After all, we made fire perfectly well without its help, and there's no sign it's connected to anything in particular but Gavin yet. No harm in saying thank you; Gavin's new talent is pretty cool. But we should treat it based on what we know about it rather than making stuff up.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 04, 2012, 04:01:22 PM
Look up. There's a poll.
Will run for 5 days total.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 04, 2012, 11:25:43 PM
You fools, a priest caste would raise our Culture and let us unlock social policies faster! Otherwise that bastard Gandhi will overtake us and then overrun us with those damn elephants he always spams.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 05, 2012, 12:36:24 AM
You fools, a priest caste would raise our Culture and let us unlock social policies faster! Otherwise that bastard Gandhi will overtake us and then overrun us with those damn elephants he always spams.
Gah, I just started playing civ V an hour ago
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 05, 2012, 12:59:14 AM
While that particular off-topicness is cute - stay on topic please.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on June 05, 2012, 03:36:54 AM
We do not know the full capacity of the rock.  We should have Gavin move it from its enclosure temporarily, to a spot still visible from the cave entrance but free from trees.  In the rock's new location, build a fire, and see if the rock helps to augment the flames in any way.  While we cannot use it as a fire to stay warm at night (due to fevers), we might be able to use it to get higher temperatures for cooking/tanning, as well as other things.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 05, 2012, 01:44:33 PM
Due to the weather, the test with the rock and the fire needs to be delayed.
I'm willing to end winter if everyone is cool with that. Just fastforward ahead.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on June 05, 2012, 03:29:42 PM
Well, the question becomes what can be done during the winter.  Distant exploration is ill advised, as is developing any new discoveries.  In all honesty, the only two options I see at the moment are a) Flickerdart's cult, or b) mad science experiments to splice Gavin's power onto the rest of the group.  While both have the potential to be quite interesting, we do not have information pointing to the viability of either option...

I vote we use the downtime on the planet as an excuse for us (the overseers) to take a much needed vacation.  We will return at the onset of spring, unless circumstances change.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 07, 2012, 05:55:10 PM
Seeing no objection, and Fako's post, we will be skipping the rest of winter.

Winter Events: A strange rock was found and it had given a hunter, now named Gavin, fire powers upon touching it; a food shortage developed and was dealt with by developing winter hunting techniques; the rock had caused a degree of illness when it was in the caves and was moved somewhere else.

Status: The group emerges from the caves as soon as the snow melts. Outside, the world begins to bloom and ripen. From the cave, those with sharp eyes can see that game is plenty and that much can be done. Spring has come, and with it opportunity.
Technology: Stone and bone tools, spear throwers and whittled wood; ropes, nets, yarn, lashing and snowshoes; pottery; fire making; jerky and dried plant-food; tanning and warmer clothing; painting and art; concept of sanitation.
Current Events: A discussion begins on where to settle. Before winter that group had never tied themselves to one place, but they see the spring as a perfect opportunity to pick a more permanent spot that has provisions for the next winter. One side of the discussion think something can be done with hides and the river; another side says to build around the river and the caves; the third side claims that an open, even ground is the best bet if it is nearby the forest and close enough to a water source.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 07, 2012, 05:31:55 PM
I say we should explore some. Start by making canoes. Start with a large tree that you have chopped down. Remove all of the bark. Then you need to hollow it out to form a place to sit. Carve notches into the wood, then break out the wood between the notches. You can also try using fire to burn out the center and remove the ash. Perhaps Gavin can help with this. Also take long peices of wood carve them so the end of them is a wide area, making oars. We can use these boats to explore down-river.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 09, 2012, 01:44:45 AM
It takes some time, but the group is able to produce 6 canoes, each fitting 3 people. Gavin's powers help tremendously.
However, the discussion continues regarding a settlement location.

(No full fledged update yet. However, I forgot to mention Refrigeration last update in Technology.)

Also, I'm calling the vote closed. Could've done it days ago.
Gavin has become a Mystic.

New poll is up about location.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 09, 2012, 12:01:03 PM
In the forest, we can use existing trees as support columns for structures, and the canopy will protect us from the elements anyhow. It'll be good times.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on June 09, 2012, 02:03:56 PM
But along the Coast, we have less directions from which we can be caught unawares, and have access to fishing areas.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 09, 2012, 06:12:56 PM
The coast will allow us easy access to fishing, and provides an easy way to use boats to increase our range, both along the coast and back up the river. We can put logs in the river and have them be washed down to the settlement, giving use a relatively easy supply of wood, alongside the other benefits.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 09, 2012, 06:22:11 PM
But along the Coast, we have less directions from which we can be caught unawares, and have access to fishing areas.
Who's going to catch us unawares, rabbits? We don't have any roving barbarian horde problems. Yet.

Besides, who knows how far away the coast is? It could be hundreds of miles. If we want to migrate anywhere, we should follow migrating herds of animals, to make sure we have enough food. What would be a good tech to do this?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on June 09, 2012, 06:26:28 PM
I will seriously miss the nice cool sheltered caves come summer weather. Keeping things chilled will be pretty important and until we've invented cellars, this place is the best for that. Besides, all our paintings are here, we're nicely close to the river, and the distance from wood is something of a nonissue since we'll be using much less of it than if we were building structures.

Edit: Whoops, I should have decided my vote *before* getting home from shopping.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 10, 2012, 11:40:22 AM
Poll will not lock now, and be updated according to needs.

Please recast your votes.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 11, 2012, 03:16:35 PM
I feel like a big enough motion has been made for the coast. Voting is locked.

More canoes are prepared for the journey - some to carry materials and others to carry the group. The hide screen from the caves is loaded up carefully and the tools as well. The river shall take us to the coast, though who knows how long that will take.
Before the journey, a supply of a week is estimated and prepared. If the coast isn't reached within that time, we will park and figure out what to do next.

One round of inventions/ideas before we head out. Go.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 11, 2012, 07:57:10 PM
If we are going to take a journey by water, it would be wise to construct buoys. By hollowing out and then drying out vegetables such as pumpkins or squashes (if we have any), or drying out animal bladders and similar organs (if we don't) in the same manner that we did other drying before the winter, and then tying them to stuff using ropes, we can ensure that our most precious possessions do not sink in the event that they are knocked overboard by idiots.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Fako on June 17, 2012, 03:33:23 PM
We'll need a way to control the canoes, to prevent us from having to constantly get out to push off of the shore lines.  The simplest method is a very long stick called a push stick, that we can use to push and control the boat while staying inside it.  You need to find long sticks, but how long depends on how deep the river is.  If you can stand in the middle of the river comfortably, then you only need a stick that's about as tall as your tallest warrior.  If it's too deep, you'll want a stick that is about half again as tall as him.  Make sure the sticks are stiff - a flexible stick might snap and break.

To control this way is very simple:  you push it against the rocks on the bottom of the river to push your boat in the opposite direction.  You can also push against the land or trees nearby if they are close enough.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 17, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
Fako: Mystify added oars to his invention of canoes and I accepted that since it appears to be integral for the proper operation. We will add your method to the lot, though. 2 more inventions for this round before departure.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on June 17, 2012, 06:18:24 PM
Before we leave this rocky area we should advance our knowledge of geology and discover lime. It will be useful later.

Have some of the craftsmen discuss the various types of rocks they're familiar with, and which are harder than others. Look for soft, light-grey rocks, probably the same kind as in the cave, then wash them and use tougher rocks to break them up into something close to a powder. Put this into a pot with water and heat it over a fire, stirring as necessary. If the powder starts shrinking and/or the water starts turning white (you may need to blow into the water through wood or bone tubes for that part), then you've succeeded - this rock is limestone, and the white liquid is limewater or whitewash; when limewater dries it leaves a white powder called slaked lime, meaning you can use limewater as a type of paint. By heating up the limestone on its own you should be able to turn it into quicklime for a while; depending on how hot Gavin's fire is, he might be able to make it make it emit a bright limelight by heating it enough.

Is that okay? There's a lot of terms in there, but they're closely related.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 18, 2012, 01:05:33 AM
I will allow it the Limestone discovery and its method. The rest will have to be invented by way of necessity.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on June 18, 2012, 10:07:05 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "discovery and method". Does "method" include the milky water part or just them being soft and light-grey?
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 18, 2012, 02:48:00 PM
The milky water part.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on June 25, 2012, 01:55:52 PM
Let's revisit weaving.

When working with reed, straw or other semi-rigid plant material, soak it in water for a length of time until it is softened, to make it easier to weave.

If making something circular such as a hat or basket, lay a few reeds out with only one point of intersection, spreading them apart, like spokes or the straight, long parts of a spider's web. They will form the frame of your creation.

Taking another reed, wrap it around the others at the center in the following pattern: bring it up between two, go over the first, under the next, over the next, under the next, and so on until reaching the end, at which point tuck it into your weave so far. The under/over pattern is generally essential to weaving.

Push what you're making against what size you want it to be fairly often (head if making a hat) to ensure you're weaving to the right shape. As you go outward you will need to add more of the straight reeds.

When weaving a rectangular mat, set several reeds parallel to each other, and use over/under to weave a reed at a time, alternating with each reed whether you go over or under first.

Practice and experimentation should help you refine this technique and determine how to apply it to other materials.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 25, 2012, 02:13:57 PM
Bouys, push sticks, lime-discovery and weaving are all golden.

The tribe makes final preparations for departure. Enough canoes are made for everyone and each canoe is fitted with an oar for each person and one push stick per manned boat.
The trek begins.

I'm forgoing a full update in favor of this small bit of events leading us down the river.
Any directions for the start of the journey on how to handle canoes on rivers? They will be able to handle it, but any additional stuff helps.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Mystify on June 25, 2012, 02:20:15 PM
If you come across a waterfall, you will have to take the boats out of the water and carry them down.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Kajhera on June 25, 2012, 02:23:41 PM
... I am so very much not the person to ask how to control a canoe, but:

Standing/rising will set you off-balance and be likely to flip the boat.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Prime32 on June 25, 2012, 03:30:27 PM
Can I suggest keeping a list of technologies/discoveries in the OP?

As for the canoeing, I'd suggest going single-file so you have more time to react to hazards.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Anaxim on June 25, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
I'll create a Google doc containing the list and reference it on updates.
Title: Re: RoC Community Forums Civilization Builders!
Post by: Flickerdart on June 27, 2012, 06:35:26 PM
A bunch of people all trying to row at once is going to be a mess.

The technique we used to make snowshoes can be expanded upon to make drums. If we hollow out a short and squat log into a tube, and then stretch wet leather across one hole, secure it with a rope around the circumference and then allow the leather to dry, we can make noise by hitting the leather with our hands. If a drummer sits at the back of a canoe and hits the drum at regular intervals, everyone will know when to row, and maintain rhythm instead of hitting each other's oars. We only really need the one drum since it ought to be loud enough to coordinate our entire group.