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Messages - Regitnui

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The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: New weapon properties
« on: July 09, 2015, 02:51:21 PM »
[Flanking] can take a tip from Legend's direct ancestor; in 3.5 flanking gave +2 to attack rolls. [Flanking] could do something similar.

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 09, 2015, 02:45:59 PM »
Intangible needs to be inspected closer.
To start, how it interacts with acrobatic adept is unclear. Namely, if you can use both a reflex and a wil lsave against the same attack.
Being good at both is hard, of course.
The second is to examine how much you can boost will saves compared to acrobatic adept. I strongly suspect this is going to be very weak in comparison, especialyl lacking the save boosts that acrobatic adept gets.

Simply, Intangible, and other effects like it, should have a condition that you can only use one replacement ability per roll, or players will stack them. It's also true that there's likely only three or four ways of doing that in the game that could be a fun character.

for third, as I've commented on the docs, the greater invisibility should be an option, not a flat override, since its not better in every aspect. Namely, you lose duration with it, and being invisible out of combat for long spans seems like something people would resent losing. This is easily cleared up with a tweak to the wording.
I also want to add a swift action to activate the warp, which drops away later, lets say 6th circle.

As you said, add a 'may' to Fade Away, and it becomes sorted. Phase shift gets "you may add the [warp] descriptor to any of your movements while you remain [faded] as a swift action. This can be activated as a free action at 6th Circle"

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: New weapon properties
« on: July 09, 2015, 02:29:35 PM »
These seem safe to go it as is, actually. I'm not that skilled though. Any other comments?

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: New Consumables
« on: July 09, 2015, 02:23:09 PM »
I'm intrigued by the name 'genesis ender'. Any chance of getting more details of that?

Hmm... If these were intended for Legend System's Tarrasque, I'm not sure they should be let into player hands at all... I have difficulty coming up with items, though.

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 09, 2015, 02:17:12 PM »
So, are we calling C7 fixed? If so, what are the other problems, and how do we solve them?

C7 and C4 seem done. C1, C5 and C6 haven't raised any flags. Shall we move on to the dev-revised C2&3?

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 08, 2015, 03:42:04 PM »
I don't see how the host would benefit from the incorporeal's resistances.
Lets set it up so both willing and hostile possession hit the host's resistances, then that gets split between host and possessor, ignoring the possessor's resistances/immunities. This keeps it from magnifying any resistances, nor let you double stack resistances.
So how would we write this in game terms, and is this the last problem with this Circle?

If I wanted to go for immunity stacking, I'd be an undead/fire elemental/elementalist/incorporeal, for immunity to negative, fire, and some other element, with legendary abiliteis to be immune to  physical damage. Now all that I have to watch out for is 2 elemental types, [force], and generic magic damage.

Right, but that's a specific build trying to take advantage of the ability. It can still be beaten.

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 07, 2015, 06:12:33 PM »
Well, then we have precedent, in the case of the [resistance]. Applying it before damage is dealt either means we let the host benefit off the incorporeal's [immunity]/[resistance], or the [resistance] is applied only to the halved damage, as it would be if the incorporeal had only been dealt that much.

[Immunity] is tricky. Perhaps we simply let it happen. It's not too broken at c7 levels. Don't most characters have [resistances], [immunity] or [fast healing] by that point? Any party should have access to at least two forms of energy damage by that point. Multiple immunities are hard to acquire, aren't they?

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 07, 2015, 11:57:48 AM »
If an HP-sponge wants to run around throwing people into spikes, that's one HP-sponge not protecting other members of his party, and that's just short of suicidal if the host keeps getting healed of the damage the HP-sponge is trying to inflict. Let's also keep in mind that the HP-sponge can't use EX or any physical based abilities. That invalidates most of Utter Brute, and severly hamstrings barbarian. They're forced to use the host's abilities.

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 07, 2015, 10:34:50 AM »
We aren't here to remove exploits
That depends on your definition of exploit. a monk with rocket punch isn't an exploit, its intentional.

Exploit; making use of the rules in a creative or unacknowledged way for an advantage.

As opposed to cheating; working around the rules, or game breaking; using the rules in such a way as to unbalance the power level, usually to be overpowering.

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 07, 2015, 09:56:07 AM »
of course, there is still teh strategy of being an incorporeal dragon with the philosophy of "screw you, I can tank the damage, lets go run through a field of blades"

But that takes a bit of effort to set up, so should be a reward for the playe,r, a bit like a monk with a rocket punch. We aren't here to remove exploits, just reduce the results until they're balanced. Yes, an incorporeal dragon can go around hurling characters into knives. Is it easy to stop at C7? Yeah, a lot of tracks can dispel by then, even without spells, and the target gets at least one will save. All of the weaker classes HP-wise at least have the option for strong Will saves, abd the strongest are just as likely to tank the damage as our incorporeal dragon. Incorporeal Utter Brutes, on the other hand...

There's also the fact that you'll split the damage, but the possessor doesn't get any of the healing aimed at the possessee. A valid approach to counter a possession-happy incorporeal would be damage your ally (damaging the incorporeal) and healing your ally up (leaving the incorporeal with lower HP). The incorporeal spirit also doesn't benefit from any effects from its host's allies. So Heroica C7 can keep the possessed alive even after the incorporeal is beaten out of him/her/other

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 07, 2015, 09:25:48 AM »
taking half the damage as the host is an intersting dynamic. On one hand, it is protecting an enemy at your own expense. On the other, it is encouraging enemies to attack their own ally.
Exactly. As an incorporeal PC you aren't going to walk into lava with the guy, but then enemies won't do it either so your party of [bound] PCs wont all simultaneously walk off a cliff through a wave of AoOs. You can also pull off tricks like grabbing the Tactician and running him closer to your barbarian ally to kill off a priority target as long as you can tank the amount of damage that would kill the [bound] host. Imagine an [encounter] where the incorporeal characters/opponents try to possess the enemy rogues and rangers to let the heavy hitters fight it out alone.

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Amorphous
« on: July 07, 2015, 07:13:30 AM »
What about, at C6, your Love Spreads (eww) upgrade to automatically grapple anyone in range? Kinda like the [entangled] is so bad they have to fight their way out of it. This allows C7 to continually drag the opponents closer; they are pulled in on your turn, and C6 traps them at the end of their turn if they stay in your Love Spread (yeugh).

At the end of their turn, all opponents within your Love Spread at the end of their turn become [grappled]. They take no damage from this [grapple].

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 07, 2015, 03:52:07 AM »
Don't forget to look at this from the opposite angle; players are going to want to use this, so we can't make this too easy to escape from. Like all the racial tracks, there will be opportunities where the players will want to use this ability. Being thrown off by a boss is fair enough, but we don't want to have every random mook able to throw them off. I can think of some players who'd have a load of fun possessing mooks and throwing them into fireballs and the weapons of their allies.

That's why I say we go for the pain split solution; it seems equally fair to both sides, whichever the player happens to be on.

EDIT: Here's a solution; make C7 a technical upgrade of  C4. Add a will save at the usual DC on initiation and every [round] to maintain it. Like C4, it can be dispelled and you take half of the damage that your [bound] host would. The incorporeal, player or opponent, is forcibly kicked out if the [bound] creature drops below 0 health, or is rendered [unconscious], [dying], [dead], [disabled] or [stable].

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 06, 2015, 07:05:33 AM »
The simplest solution seems to be the removal of the sentence "you cannot be targeted" in favour of something more along the lines of "all physical damage is transferred to the [bound] creature, [energy] damage split evenly between you and the [bound] creature, and [force] damage affects you normally". Wordy, I know, but it's not like the ability as is is nice and clean.

The Abandoned Laboratory / Re: Incorporeal
« on: July 05, 2015, 01:06:59 AM »
Well, if we go the 'puppeteer' C7, the incorporeal creature might have to partially undo [faded] to be able to use the host's abilities; While the host remains [bound], non-[force] (or non-[elemental]) damage can hit the Incorporeal. A will save each turn allows the host to throw off the possession on their own. That's another non-lethal route (you may extend this possession by one [round], but the possessed opponent gets a new Will save to end the possession)

I also like the idea of a  'pain split'; certain attacks deal damage to both the spirit and the host. Perhaps we have a ladder of effects;
-[Physical] damages only host
-[Elemental] damages both host and Incorporeal for half each.
-[force] damages only the Incorporeal, for massive damage due to their [vulnerability].

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