Author Topic: Items  (Read 5064 times)

chaos_redefined

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Items
« on: July 05, 2015, 11:18:53 AM »
I'll be dumping item ideas I have here.  Feel free to recommend alterations.

Lesser Place of Power
Fighter's Training Grounds
Benefit: Choose a Combat Maneuver.  When you use that combat maneuver, the corresponding saving throw DC increases by 2.

Spoiler
I was gonna whitelist it, but then I remembered that monk was a thing, and someone could create another track like serpent, giving more combat maneuvers.  So, yeah...  as stands, you can use this with Charging or Power Attacking, etc..., but you get no benefit for doing so.

Mage's Training Grounds
Benefit: Choose a first level spell.  You may cast that spell as a spell-like ability once per [Encounter].  If the spell has a DC, the DC is equal to 10 + half your level + your KOM.

Relic Item
Bronze Tactica
Benefit: Choose a [Style] feat that you meet the prerequisites for.  You gain that feat.  You may benefit from two style feats at the same time.

Relic Place of Power
Rogue's Training Grounds
Benefit: Choose a skill.  You gain a +2 [Item] bonus to that skill, and may take 10 on that skill regardless of circumstances. Once you become attuned to this item, you must remain attuned to it for the duration of the [Scene].

Spoiler
I'd been contemplating this item for a while, but had been hesitant to because Esoterica Radica was pretty unique.  With the new material that we got, this concern is apparently less of a concern, with several tracks offering the ability, admittedly as an add-on at higher circles.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 08:05:35 PM by chaos_redefined »

Mystify

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Re: Items
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 03:07:13 PM »
I don't like rogue's training grounds. Lots of abilities are reasonable by themselves, but need the opportunity cost of a track attached to them.Taking 10 on a skill can be potent enough that it falls into that category.

silver tactica is explicitly throwing out balance limitations. Things with a level pre-req have that limit for a reason; what reason it is depends on the ability.
Gold tactica has the same balance limitation concerns; all iconic feats are balanced with the knowledge you can't stack them. For instance, both focus point feats. Many things are balanced based on the assumption you can only get 2 free focus points, and have to sacrifice attacks for others. On the flip side, if you take an iconic feat which doesn't violate stacking assumptions, its not going to be anywhere near an artifact's worth of power.
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chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 07:41:28 PM »
Rogue's Training Grounds could go up to relic, if I could another ability to it.  Probably a +2 Item bonus to that skill.  Would that satisfy the concerns?

Silver Tactica is a Relic.  That is a noteworthy cost.  Additionally, going over things again, I merely made sure at least one instance existed...  But it appears that I listed the only feat that you cannot take when a character would normally gain their first relic.  So, is In Mithral Reborn broken for your first relic?  Vorpal weapon seems to indicate "No, it's actually underpowered".  The other option that potentially causes problems is the Iron Monger Legendary ability, but that's legendary, so do any of the combat feats coming online early cause problems as a Legendary ability?

Would an artifact that granted an extra focus point/round break things? If not, why is this any different?

Mystify

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Re: Items
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2015, 07:56:11 PM »
I guess currently there aren't any problematic ones, but it isn't very futureproof, and lowering the level threshold doesn't seem to do much beyond that feat currently. I'd remove that clause entirely, but a single combat feat doesn't seem worth a relic.

Anything granting an extra focus point / round will break things ,currently. The focus point system is kind of half-baked in that regard, as it doesn't have a ton of support currently, but extending it throws off the balance.
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chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2015, 09:15:52 PM »
OK.  In that case, the other one of note there would be the one that lets you have two style feats at a time?  Is that a problem?

Iconic feat option is changed.  It's down to a relic, and it lets you switch between them like Style feats.

Combat feat option is removed.

Thoughts on Rogue's Training Grounds as a Relic option, with some other goodie attached?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 09:18:50 PM by chaos_redefined »

chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 02:11:52 AM »
OK.  Rogue's Training Grounds now provides a +2 bonus, and is a relic.  Is that investment sufficient?  Or should the item do more?

Mystify

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Re: Items
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 09:09:48 AM »
a relic should have enough opportunity cost to make rogue's training ground it a weighty consideration.

switching iconic feats has some difficulties. Justice, Blind inflicts absolutely permament blindness. revoking the feat therefore would leave you blind without the countermeasures of the feat. Juggernaut permamently makes you large with no penalties.  a light against shadow has a use limit per encounter, so you can switch away from it after using it with little drawback, as os on a pale horse. big damn hero is similar, and did the math is even worse, as its a 1/scene ability.
So some feats are dysfunctional if you can lose them, and the others are very uneven as to how swapping them out works in relation to their power.
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chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 08:06:10 PM »
Iconic feat item is gone.

chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2015, 11:53:01 PM »
Will tack this in above once I've had a few more eyes go over it.

1-point Enchantment
Combat Maneuver [Weapon]
Lesser/Greater/Relic/Artifact: Increase the DC of your combat maneuvers by 1.

Stable [Armor][Shield]
Lesser/Greater: Gain a +2 [Item] bonus against combat maneuvers.
Relic/Artifact: Gain a +3 [Item] bonus against combat maneuvers.

Wand-Weapon [Weapon]
Lesser/Greater: When you attune to this weapon, select a first circle spell.  Once per [Encounter], you may use that spell as a standard action. The DC of that spell is 10 + lvl/2 + your item bonus to attack.
Relic/Artifact: As Lesser/Greater, but you may use the spell twice per [Encounter].

2-point Enchantment
Better Wand-Weapon [Weapon]
Greater: When you attune to this weapon, select a second circle spell.  Once per [Encounter], you may use that spell as a standard action. The DC of that spell is 10 + lvl/2 + your item bonus to attack.
Relic/Artifact: As Greater, but you may use the spell twice per [Encounter].

Speed [Weapon]
Greater/Relic/Artifact: You gain a [Bonus Attack] when you make an attack action.

Flaming [Armor]
Greater: Whenever an opponent successfully attacks you, they become [Burning].
Relic/Artifact: Whenever an opponent successfully attacks you, they become [Burning] and [Bleeding].

3-point Enchantment
Best Wand-Weapon [Weapon]
Relic: When you attune to this weapon, select a fourth circle spell.  Once per [Encounter], you may use that spell as a standard action. The DC of that spell is 10 + lvl/2 + your item bonus to attack.
Artifact: As Relic, but you may use the spell twice per [Encounter].

Iron Shell [Shield]
Relic/Artifact: Once per [encounter], double your deflection bonus to AC for one [Round].
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 08:56:49 AM by chaos_redefined »

Knightsyde

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Re: Items
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2015, 06:37:59 AM »
The only one I see a problem with is opportunity as it has very limited applicability given that Masterwork is a +1 bonus at all times. A +2 to only opportunity attacks seems a bit weak. Especially given that Legend isn't the AoO fest that was 3.5.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 06:44:35 AM by Knightsyde »

chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 07:47:01 AM »
To be honest...  I was worried a bit about that one.  In the hands of a Discipline of the Serpent, I figured it was almost strictly superior to Masterwork.  Is that too niche?

Tim4488

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Re: Items
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 07:53:41 AM »
It seems like a reasonable 1-point enchantment to me. Certain builds (DotS, Knight) might take it, most builds won't, but it's situationally useful. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as a situationally useful option.
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chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2015, 08:36:04 AM »
Just realized you were talking about Oppurtunity, and not the preliminary version of Combat Maneuver I had.

And yeah, switch DotS to Knight, for my argument to make sense again.

Mystify

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Re: Items
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2015, 08:38:50 AM »
by 20th, you will likely have 5 normal attacks. You get 2 AoOs, assuming knight. /Assuming/ you can get both of them, thas 2/7 of your attacks for the round which benefit. That's .29 of your attacks. Compared to masterwork, which is all of them. I would never bother to take this, even in the best case scenario for getting AoOs. The math doesn't add up for it.

The combat manuever one I would scrap. Its pointless for most characters, and too good to pass up for serpents.
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chaos_redefined

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Re: Items
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2015, 08:57:17 AM »
Scrapped Oppurtunity.  (Although Knights typically aren't making 5 attacks...  Charging and all that)

Nerfed Combat Maneuver.